Light Bringer PvE Build questions

[Kinross]

Hi guys n gals. i have a few questions regarding Light Bringer. The current build I'm planning on using is this:

https://dnskillsim.herokuapp.com/sea...-0---0--00--00

I've only played him for two days, but I'd like to get some information from the community.

The plates I'm planning on getting are: Energetic Chakra(CD), Chakra Cure(CD), Miraculous Chakra(CD), and Sunshine Spark(Action Spd)

1) I'm currently focusing on playing him as a support, and I usually keep my distance from bosses since LF feels squishy(could be my gems). With that being said, I find myself awkwardly using Strike Ring a lot. It does a good portion of my damage sometimes if I manage to waddle or Outbreak my way up to the boss and use it, but I was wondering if there was a better place to allocate my SP since I hardly use it, or should I simply keep Strike Ring?

2) The Rabbit sucks. Unless she has some hidden power that I'm not understanding this disgusting creature was a waste of my time & points.

3) The majority of my consistent DPS comes from my dark skills(other than Sunshine Spark and Outbreak), so would it be more efficient to stack Dark Damage, or a mixture of Dark and Light? Would Physical gems be better? Pact of Azuna also deals Dark and it seems like he does a good portion of my damage.

4) Dark Line has a chunky cooldown and I don't really use it unless I'm out of things to use. Would replacing it with Dark Focus be viable? How exactly does Dark Focus even work?

I apologize about all the possibly ignorant questions, I never played Bringers, so these classes are quite new to me.

[Asal]

Heh just made a LB too and got a similar build to yours except I left out dark skills for now as idk which ones are useful I never used them before (got like 197 points spent or something). Be good to hear from some of the experienced LBs also some good questions here. Was thinking to get the double heal cd plates and sunshine spark also for now (didn't know it had action speed that would be good).

[Kinross]

This may start looking like a dairy of a newbie. I just realized using Outbreak into Strike Ring is pretty efficient due to Class Mastery 1. Perhaps actually reading skills would have helped me before posting just a bit. I ignored looking at the class masteries after hearing how awful they were. Strike Ring is okay for now, but sometimes it feels inconsistent.

the main reason I'm looking towards action speed plate for Sunshine Spark is for the increased damage mobs take after being hit by it(according to the tooltip. please god let it be correct). I run with a party and Sunshine Spark is sometimes a bit slow getting there before they start using their burst skills. We aren't very coordinated, but at this point I'm just trying to focus on support.

[ceruulean]

Rabbit is same hp recovery as a single saint relic so if you're hardcore support you can spam it for the minor healing but obviously if that's not worth the effort don't get it

curious why you don't have any mp recovery passives since lb doesn't really recover mp well, although you only really run out of mp in long nests or raids

the lack of chakra illusion is interesting; used to get it for mobility but with universal dash idk if it's necessary anymore lol

build looks pretty solid

as for sunshine spark plate, action speed and dmg are mostly the same. Way back when debuffs stacked action speed was better because if the spark missed u just lost burst from your party, but now that debuffs don't really stack you can use dmg plate by preference. If you have a warrior, paladin, sharpshooter, etc they should be able to dmg amp debuff as well

i had a cure action speed plate because I thought removing debuffs ASAP was better but that's only the case if the ticks take out chunks of hp lol. Cd is probably better now

rn befor assassin awakening lb does more damage with dark skills kek, I believe stacking all dark is the dps build but that may not be a good idea to invest in since after awakening destructive will be in demand for lb (where afterheal depend on patk)

[Psyt]

The first youtube of SEA testing shows that we need to max chakra illusion for an awakening skill, and we need to max piercing star (shuriken throw) from assassin tree; overall looks really underwhelming, they didn't pick either support or damage for the skills.

[ceruulean]

OH i didnt even consider awakening since its not even out for english speaking servers

[Asal]

Never thought of the destructive gems I guess they would benefit both eh plus would be a good place to stick any L grade ones I get. Also If they get a heal off phys dmg in awakening that would be good too. I went with chakra illusion and rabbit and the mp regen passive idk they definitely seem to be able to be subbed for dark skills. Seem to remember a lot of lbs getting dark line out of the dark skills so I went with that and the cat since I'm low on points to get 3 dark skills dmg skills but that build seems nice dps with 3 main dark dmg skills.

[postboundarts]

(as someone who has played LB for about 2 years, I think I can help a bit. I might edit this post later if i notice anything else. if it helps, i could post my skill build later)

The skill trees for the taoist and light bringer look fine, but I noticed that you put 5 skill points into shadow hand.
Shadow hand isn't useful if you're making a pve build bc breaking super armor isn't really necessary on bosses.

Please keep strike ring since it is one of the strongest light attribute moves you have, a passive you recieve as a lb already boosts the damage of all light att moves by 20%. If the boss runs off somewhere else, cut the skill animation short by pressing the space bar. Even if it reduces the amount of hits, it'll let you slam into the ground twice. Not sure why it does that. If the boss attacks you, at least it isn't running away. It's probably bc the large amount of damage you're doing gives a lot of aggro, so there's not much you can do other than get more hp with gear like life gems. New gear doesn't give vitality anymore which sucks.

I use nether burst (plasma burst) and dark line from the aw tree since they have relatively fast action speed and leaves you less vulnerable compared to other moves. I think they both are the strongest moves from the aw tree, but i might have to look more into it.

Some people mix light and dark, have only dark, and i personally use only light, but I've never seen anyone use physical gems. Maybe later on physical gems will be useful. But for now, use light or dark gems or else your damage won't be multiplied by your element %. I think pdmg only adds damage while element multiplies damage, which is why classes without an element use conversion gems.

[Kinross]

Sometimes Strike Ring doesn't even hit the boss, I can't tell if that's from a glitch or simply lag. After really playing around with it this afternoon I found Strike Ring to be pretty great overall despite this.

The only dark skill I have points invested to atm that I find lacking is Dark Line. postboundarts I didn't think of that, Dark Line is somewhat fast and I'm not completely locked down, which is good. i'm still somewhat underwhelmed by it, but perhaps I'm being too critical and expecting too much damage from the build.

Does the Rabbit heal allies? None of my mates are online for me to check real quick. If so then I may consider picking it up. I thought it only healed me.

[SkitzoRoy]

1) I'll get into skills and Dark vs. Light last.

2) As ceruulean said, if you're hardcore support, Rabbit is the same as a single healing relic from Saint that can move around for a few seconds. It's a very minor heal yes, but it could be a pretty nice heal over time for yourself and it does heal your allies if they're nearby for the Rabbit's buff.

Your choice of mp passives is odd. After the first Mental Mastery, you'll have 230k+ MP. Each point after would give you 6k+ more MP each. Mind Conqueror gives 25 MP per second. It would take 240+ seconds to equal out to an extra point in Mental Mastery. That's 4 minutes. I'm pretty sure in nests or raids, you'll be there longer than 4 minutes so Mind Conqueror is gonna yield more MP over time compared to Mental Mastery.
Chakra Heal doesn't help w/ MP recovery too much, so you can't be dependent on that.

Shadow Hand is ok to get you to 45 sp, but getting Triple Edge instead could be helpful with dodging attacks.

Your plates are fine though.


Ok, now let's get into skills for LB.
Let's look at ideal DPS of skills first (maxed):
Outbreak EX: Outbreak EX is a little bit complicated.. The "slam attack is increased by 80%" means the slam attack is increased by 80% of Outbreak's total damage. The chakra attack is 80% of Outbreak's total damage.
Outbreak's EX applies to the whole skill, so that's 2193%*1.8 = 3947.4% per 6 seconds.
Strike Ring EX: 321%*1.5 = 481.5% per hit. 19 hits are achievable on the training Golem, so that's 481.5*19 = 9148.5% per 18 seconds.
Sunshine Spark EX:
From what I've so far tested with SSS, each little tick explosion is 50% of the last hit of SSS. Meaning each little explosion is 50% of the 2906% (at max) which is 1543% each (about 1 per second). The blast damage is 5% of the 2906% each time the spark itself is touching the enemy (about 5 hits of those per second). However, the additional damage of 50% at the last hit of SSS doesn't add in/effect to those damages. It's only the last hit, so you'll have 4359% on the last hit.

Breaking this up, on the training Golem:
3 "little explosions" are easily hit (using double jump) so that lets say SSS is on a boss for 3 seconds. For the continuous blast damage, that would be an approximate total of 2906%*0.05 = 145.3%. 145.3%*5 = 726.5% (5 hits per second). For 3 seconds (since 3 little explosions hit), 726.5%*3 = 2179.5%.
The 3 little explosions would be 1543%*3 = 4629%.
The last explosion would be 2906%*1.5 = 4359%.

Putting it all together,
SSS EX: 4359% + 4629% + 2179.5% = 11,167.5% per 15 seconds.

Now for the dark skills:
Illusion Strike: 185% per dagger, + 30% Burn. With a total of 19 daggers, that's 185%*19 + 30% Burn = 3545% per 9 seconds.
Night Explosion: 3131% + 30% Burn = 3161% per 12 seconds
Plasma Burst: 4041% + 30% Burn = 4071% per 15 seconds
Dark Focus:
Dark Focus is a bit odd at first, but it's actually quite simple. Dark Focus will always have 5 hits. The first hit 1745%. The remaining 4 hits will be 10% off of that 1745% each. So, that's 174.5% each hit. 1745% + 174.5%*4 (4 hits) = 1745%*1.4 = 2443%
So, Dark Focus is: 2443% per 5 seconds.
Line of Darkness: 2 attacks of 2701% each + 30% Burn. That's 2701%*2 + 30% = 5432% per 27 seconds.
Lastly, Pact of Ajna.
For simplicity, I tested his DPS to be about 557% per second.

Now, let's compare Light vs. Dark:
Outbreak EX: 3947.4%/6 = 657.9% per second.
Strike Ring EX: 9148.5%/18 = 508.25% per second.
SSS EX = 11,167.5%/15 = 744.5% per second.

Illusion Strike: 3545%/9 = 393.89% per second
Night Explosion: 3161%/12 = 263.42% per second
Plasma Burst: 4071%/15 = 271.4% per second
Dark Focus: 2443%/5 = 488.6% per second
Line of Darkness: 5432%/27 = 201.19% per second
Pact of Ajna: 557% per second


This is all, however, ideal dps per second. In actuality, Outbreak EX's, Strike Ring EX's, and SSS EX's dps is going to be lower, and Illusion Strike's, Night Explosion's, and Line of Darkness's dps all suffer from having a way to lose dps too.
Outbreak EX: I bet 99% of the time, you're not literally against the boss while never using the right-click ability (the chakra attack). Half of Outbreak's damage is in the first 5 initial hits. Most of the time some of those hits are gonna miss. 99% of the time, LBs use the right-click chakra attack.
So, assuming 2 out of the 5 initial hits land and the right-click chakra attack is used..
The first 5 hits is 50% of Outbreak, so 1 hit is 10% of Outbreak's damage: 219.3%
The Chakra Attack is 80% of Outbreak's damage: 2193%*80% = 1754.4%
Adding these two together: 2*219.3%+1754.4% = 2193% or Outbreak's original damage.

So, Outbreak EX's realistic damage: 2193%/6 is 365.5% per second.

Illusion Strike, Strike Ring EX, and SSS EX are rather hard to estimate realistically, so I won't bother with them.
But I should note that besides SSS EX, Illusion Strike and Strike Ring EX depend heavily on getting in most of their hits in all the time. If that's not practical, think about putting SP elsewhere.
Missing the first hit of Night Explosion can happen (1st hit is 10% of Night Explosion's damage) so 3131% - 313.1% = 2817.9% per 12 seconds = 234.825% per second.
If the second hit of DL misses, the dps is cut in half, 201.19%/2 = 100.59% per second

And you get the point...

tl;dr section here:
Now, these results are assuming everything is maxed, which they won't be in real skill builds. Not to mention, Outbreak is effected by LB's Class Mastery 1.
So, these are definitely rough estimates based on the training Golem. However from these results, you can see which skills are going to be contributing the most:
SSS EX: 11,167.5%/15 = 744.5% per second.
Pact of Ajna: 557% per second
Strike Ring EX: 9148.5%/18 = 508.25% per second.
Dark Focus: 2443%/5 = 488.6% per second
Illusion Strike: 3545%/9 = 393.89% per second
Outbreak EX: 2193%/6 = 365.5% per second.
Plasma Burst: 4071%/15 = 271.4% per second
Night Explosion: 3161%/12 = 263.42% per second
Line of Darkness: 5432%/27 = 201.19% per second

A couple things can be seen here:
Line of Darkness is really only good for a small burst.
SSS is king
And Light and Dark skills are both good for dps on a LB.
So, you'll probably want to hybrid Light and Dark on a LB if you have dark skills w/ sp in them. I'd probably prioritize Light over Dark for SSS and Strike Ring though.

If you want to have better dps, I'd say a build like this: https://dnskillsim.herokuapp.com/sea...-0---0--00--00 would suit you best.
If you want to have good burst for occasional attacks and helping w/ damage checks, a build like this: https://dnskillsim.herokuapp.com/sea...-0---0--00--00 would probably be best (the remaining 5 sp can go in Illusion Strike or Dark Conviction)


Hope this helps you with deciding how to build your LB. Remember to double jump before casting SSS EX for that extra damage~.

[Psyt]

Does dark burn stack? In the dark burn section, you included the burn damage in the total skill damage, but I don't believe that dark stacks and it only reapplies when a new hit is added. Edit: does no stack, just refreshes duration

Can we use element conversion gems to take the dark damage and turn it light? Edit: Checked, no, we are stuck with the split light and dark damage.

Edit: I'm going to test out the difference between using destructive gems versus light gems tonight when I get home. I'm somewhere around 62% light attribute damage and just crossed over 100k physical damage (+8 obsessed dagger and +6 nightmare hook), but I still feel weak. Outbreak Ex is critting on the left click for 11mil, Strike Ring is critting for 1.2mil, and SSS is critting on bursts for 10mil and 22mil for explosion. On my much lesser geared WW, I crit for 14 mil on a Blooming kick.

Current build, likely changing soon: https://dnskillsim.herokuapp.com/na/...-0---0--00--00

Going to grab some +0 Theano weps, armors and costume off, title off, and +0 destructive and light dragon gems. 5 uses of each skill, average the damage for the 5 uses, only taking non-crit hits.

[Psyt]

My testing concluded from above that physical dragon gems do not put out as much DPS as using light gems. Keep in mind that this is also based on the skill build that I am using which maximizes the light skills and only maximized a few dark skills.

All in all, light gems were roughly 15% more total DPS than physical gems.

[SkitzoRoy]

Saying "dark burn doesn't stack" can be a bit misleading. Each dark skill has its own dark burn (Illusion Strike's burn, Night Burst's burn, Nether Burst's burn, and Dark Line's burn). These burns do stack; however, multiple hits from the same skill does not stack a new burn. That, as you said, only refreshes the duration. For example: multiple hits of Illusion Strike does not add multiple burns, it just keeps refreshing Illusion Strike's one burn duration. Hitting Night Burst and Dark Line on an enemy will cause 2 burns: Night Burst's burn and Dark Line's burn.

Light/dark gems are definitely going to do more damage/dps because of Blessing of Azuna and the Class Mastery 1. However, in LB's awakening, Miraculous Chakra will heal based off of an LB's physical damage. So, since LB's are supposed to be more support than damage, it would be better to prioritize physical damage over light, assuming you're trying to be a supportive LB. However, after awakenings, Light gems will still give LBs more dps, especially because Pact of Azuna now becomes light elemental along with 2 new light-based active skills.

[Kinross]

Wow, you're amazing. Thanks for all this information. I didn't expect anyone to go into this much detail.

[SkitzoRoy]

Thanks. I hope it helps you in some way! Again tho, this stuff is just all on paper. In practice there's probably gonna be a few things different, but this should be a good way to start. Assassins just got awakenings in KDN and LFs are gonna be quite different in the next couple months once we get assassin awakenings as well. (LFs are gonna be much more Light/Phys-damage focused rather than Light/Dark, so perhaps for preparing for the future, it may be best to work more with Light than Dark).

[Psyt]

I saw the awakenings being used on a youtube video, I'm overall unimpressed. We're getting forced to max piercing shuriken in the assassin tree (it gets light element added to it) and we're force to max chakra illusion which you need to do a full distance run of to do max damage.

The 2 new actives: one drops a small "light field" that changes some of our skills to do different stuff, basically more hits from Outbreak and Strike Ring while in the field, but it forces us to be stationary. The other is a quick cast of light burst in a circle around us, but the damage looks weak; it's likely that this is a mob "pull" to center them for an easy Strike Ring.

Then they buffed one of the heals, and I can't read the Korean to know what the 6th does.

They weren't as kind to us as they were to Adepts, where one of their passives in the awakening takes the higher of water/fire element and applies it to all of their skills. I'll still spec down to Dark Line because it's so useful, but it's going to feel mediocre without having a light attribute on it.

[Psyt]

Thanks for the link to the Twitch stream from Vara, I learned a lot.

It looks like there is no dodge awakening and we can't get the new dark tree Rubicon skill unless we go thru the dark tree and dark line is a prerequisite for the dodge skill. That's a LOT of SP used on dark skills.

I do see what you mean about the area active skill; we want the enemy to stand in there and it appears to do 3 hits of small damage when we use Outbreak, Strike Ring, SSS, Fullbright, and the awakening dash active.

While the damage at 3600% for the 6 second cooldown, short distance dash sounds good, the skill looks so bland. It doesn't even have a flashy effect like Dark Line, and appears to just be a spammable Dark Line with no CTC, and with higher damage.

This is what I think I'm going to end up using:

https://dnskillsim.herokuapp.com/kdn...-0-00-----0--0

Can't touch Chakra Cure if we want to get to Rubicon because of the 10 SP, same with Light Tunnel.

[SkitzoRoy]

Yup, it is a lot of SP to go through the dark tree just to get Rubicon. Not to mention, Rubicon costs 10 sp to get..

Chakra Clip (the short distance dash) is definitely not flashy at all. I wish it was either flashier or faster tbh,

Hmm, Light Bringers are support for PvE, so I would definitely recommend getting Chakra Cure over Rubicon. Light Tunnel isn't needed at all now. I'm surprised they didn't change the skill.
Also, the Piercing Star and Illusory Chakra awakenings might not be worth getting so that would save you enough sp to get Chakra Cure if that's the case. Also, I don't think the LB ult is supposed to be used for damage, leaving that at level 1 could also be a possibility to save sp.

[Psyt]

Yeah, I'll be cutting Light Tunnel out, not worthwhile at all. 10% movespeed in a straight line for 10 SP, no thanks.

Rubicon gives us another i-frame, so I'm personally going to spec to it. It also looks like we can drop Strike Ring with it from a higher location than normal, so it might get more than the standard 18 hits. I'll have to test this when it becomes available to us.

From the Vara twitch channel video, Piercing Star was hitting really really hard, like on par with Chakra Clip, and range was across the entire 1v1 arena. And we have to get the level 3 ult to get the level 90 mastery, which I'm assuming that it's worth taking because they buffed just about everyone when they got to those skills.

I think you're right that the Chakra Punch awakening isn't worth our time. Damage was worse than Awakened Piercing Star.

Nests will be us spamming clones, cats, Chakra Heals, SSS, and Shurikens from distance while also trying to keep the dark burn going with Illusion Strike and Night Burst, while looking for safe opportunities to go in with Outbreak for damage buff, Fullbright because it's fast and we're already close from Outbreak, Chakra Clip because it looks strong, Chakra Ring because any damage we can add is good, and Strike Ring because a full rotation is one of our best damage skills. At least it's a change from now because it adds Shurikens, Chakra Ring, and Chakra Clip. Bummed that it's going to be almost the exact same play style.

[Kinross]

Overall I was expecting worse for the awakenings. I'm genuinely surprised about the Piercing Star thing. Is there a particular reason why Dark Line got nerfed? I never kept up with the other server's patch notes or balances so I don't really know anything.

[Kinross]

Both are really fun in PvE, and these changes won't deter me from playing both in PvE. I haven't even touched PvP since I've been told to avoid it. Is it bad for AW? Is it as bad for LF compared to AW after awakenings?

[SkitzoRoy]

I think it's too soon to really tell where LF and AW stand in PvP w/ awakenings now. Quite a few things have changed. For AW, it looks like nerfing Dark Line so much will overall nerf the class. By how much is yet to be seen. LF isn't supposed to be as dependent on Dark Line in PvP, so it won't be as much of a nerf to them. However, LF is still one of the weakest classes in PvP, so any kind of nerf really isn't helpful for them. But, we'll probably have to wait for these awakenings to come to NA for a solid idea of how they're gonna be in PvP. All I know is, from the people I've talked to, we're all not too excited about the PvP side of the awakenings coming..

[Psyt]

For LF PVP, they are going to live or die against melee matchups by Chakra Clip: its 12 sec cooldown and how it interacts with knockdowns, and live or die by Piercing Star Awkn: will the opponent let us spam it from far away, will it do anything except damage, and will its 8 sec cooldown be often enough for us to use. 40 sec SSS means it doesn't do much, 30 sec cd Strike Ring is too long.

[Psyt]

Oo, question. I'm no where near fully geared, so agility will still increase my crit chance. I found somewhere that str -> 0.5 p dmg and agi -> 0.5 p dmg. Is that still the case? I swapped out a STR gem for a AGI gem and lost 600 p dmg. The only thing I could think of is that since I have mostly STR gems and the + strength and +%strength was still just greater overall.

[postboundarts]

I'm not completely sure what the exact numbers are for agi and str are for assassins because each source had different numbers, but you should still get agi gems instead because it increases your critical chance/damage as well as increasing pdmg. Most of your damage come from crits and the assassin buff also increases crit damage. Obviously, crits do more damage than normal hits, so you definitely want more crits when fighting.
Tldr, get windswept gems bc they increase pdmg and crit while str only increases pdmg
(This is all pre awakening info, people might switch to str gems to heal more after awakening)