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  • Machina advice/tips?

    I'm relatively new to the game and I decided to make a Machina as my first character to make and so far I'm really enjoying it but its still a bit confusing for me. It took me a while to understand that I didn't need to hotkey all the skills I got and most of them just can be used by linking them via "Gear Steps".

    Anyways I just hit level 50 and plan to continue leveling and I was wondering what stats or crests I should go for, basically any help in gearing/skill rotations.

    It says that my main stat is AGI so I'm obviously going to try to get some of that but I'm pretty sure there's other stats that I'm suppose to go for. I'm mostly going to be playing with a friend who made a crusader. From my understanding some classes can convert there damage to like light or dark damage, or something like that, is there some stuff I can do to compliment his character?

    Also, I looked around for skill builds for PvE mostly but they only have like 90 skill builds and not 93. So I was wondering if my build is fine and if someone could be so kind to post a updated or relevant guide that still applies to the current version.

    Another thing that questions me is the bars under my mana. What exactly are they for? The brown one and the green one? When I charge up using "Overclock" it fills up but the brown one stays full while the green one goes down slowly?



    Thanks in advanced for any help!
    1st Tree 2nd Tree 3rd Tree
I'm saving SP to get the "Pressure Release (Attack)" atm.
    Last edited by Streak; 10-03-2016, 03:05 PM.

  • #2
    The orange bar is how much of ur overcharge buff u have. U wanna keep it full and some skills replenish it.

    the green bar is a timer on how long they last.

    This ui bar is universal to all classes with a bubble counter system of some sort. Classes without bubbles lack it.
    *
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
    Who guards the guardians?

    Comment


    • #3
      Hey streak welcome to DN my friend. Made a good choice for picking the ruina specialization. Im not home atm but when I get home I'll be able to answer all the questions you got unless someone else runs it all down for me.

      For now just focus on leveling the class and practice learning the gear steps into combos as you go on.

      Just some advice on your build. You can go ahead and drop both your MP passives for the time being. Another thing to note is that one of mechanics of machina is that if you hold the normal attack button immediately after most offensive patrona skills your normal attack becomes insanely strong. This is because normal attacks following a skill inherit a skill's damage %. So what you want to do is focus on leveling the skills with naturally high base damage like beat down, kidney blow, twister kick and so on.

      Dont give up on leveling!
      Last edited by CharginTool; 10-03-2016, 04:39 PM.
      IGN: CharginTool
      Discord ID: CharginTool #6299
      (9 ′︵‵ )9

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      • #4
        Thanks for the info ceruulean.
        I thought the ui bar was just for my class, haha.

        Thanks to you as well CharginTool, but no rush. Thanks for some of the info already it helps! I didn't know about the skill damage into auto attack damage or holding down LMB.
        I will wait patiently for your next set of info !

        Comment


        • #5
          Here's my personal build of 93 cap until awakening: http://dnskillsim.herokuapp.com/na/r...-0---0--00--00
          If you got any questions or concerns on the build ask away!

          Stats: Atm since you're a new player. You're right just stack agility, since agility gives critical chance% and physical damage. Your main stat will be agility. Vit is the other stat I would recommend. HP and defense is always nice to have.

          Later on as you said you're gonna want to convert into an element (atm I believe dark(?) is the best). You do not have to really worry about this until you reach level cap, continue as you are. Once you're there you'll need an elemental conversion gem which makes any neutral element attack into the element it specifies. THEN stack as many corresponding dragon gems that give that ele% as much as possible. You're probably wondering why you do this, its because it allows the class to have one more class of debuff/buff which is elemental so you can squeeze that extra damage out for endgame. Pretty much every non-elemental class does this so you should too.

          The bars under the mana for your class specifically are called "steam counters". If you gather up to 30 via the skill "Overclock", you'll gain 1% more agility for each counter. But that's not the only thing, you can consume it all for a self-heal and buff (the buff is the key to Ruina's DPS) via "Pressure Release" in the Ruina tree. This in turn gives you 50% final damage (basically 50% more damage overall), makes ducking go down to 0 seconds (more on this later), and the charging animation for both charging gear AND overcharge are both virtually gone. More of that on the next paragraph.

          If you recall what I said about holding normals after skill. If you hold the LMB long enough, you'll go into a "charging gear state", if held even longer it'll eventually go into "overcharge" which depending on which skill you used does tremendous damage. If you buff yourself with "Pressure release" the animation to charge, which is like 5 seconds becomes less than a second. So you'll want to go into overcharge a lot more often.

          For ducking, if you max level it and activate the buff this allows you to transition between each skill and gear step endlessly and it looks super cool while you do it. Later on when you get the level 65 passive, performing gear steps will award you with steam counters and virtually infinite super armor. Best spam it.

          Whew went overboard! Hope you read it all!
          IGN: CharginTool
          Discord ID: CharginTool #6299
          (9 ′︵‵ )9

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          • #6
            Wow, thanks for the ton of info, haha.

            So far, my build looks around the same as yours except one thing. I'm probably wrong because I was going based off like a year old build but I kind of like the skill, but I haven't tried Twister Kick Much. I have only 1 point in Twister Kick and most of my points are into Follow Up, Flying Knee-Kick, Beat Down, and Kidney Blow for the high base damage skills. I can see why you leveled Twister Kick though, it has a much more higher base damage than Follow Up, which would help me in damage with the Overcharge. I can change into Twister Kick. If I switch points into Twister Kick, would I even use follow up anymore because the damage won't be as high?

            Also on the point of not using certain skills, I don't see the point in getting follow up ex, exploding palm ex, if I didn't level them up for extra damage. or do you just get the EX to just have them?

            So far, I am stacking the agility, I'm looking for all the plates and dragon crests that give agility and some life here and there. Thanks for the info on that, my damage went up by a lot!.

            I have learned the combo for the duck RMB duck RMB, and it generates steam, rather than having to use the Overclock skill but what do you mean by "infinite super armor"?

            I hope you have time to read this! Again thanks for the information !

            Comment


            • #7
              Nawh since follow-up is on the lower side of the scale in terms of damage, it's actually one of the lowest priority in terms of skill rotation. You'll still want the EX of both since they still pass as fillers incase something goes wrong.

              Exploding palm ex believe it or not, is actually THE top priority move you should be using once you're ele converted since it's instant 20% extra damage (via reducing the enemy's elemental resist by 20%) and it goes into kidney blow instant EX (it's is own seperate skill learned at level 90).

              Here are some other ducking combos you could do:
              Forward movement ducking: RMB x2 > duck > LMB > duck > LMB (continues forever)
              Slightly more consistent steam gain vs RMB duck spam: RMB x2 > duck > RMB > duck > LMB > duck > RMB > duck > LMB (repeat steps 2-Last)

              If you've read class mastery 1 at level 65 it states you "gain significantly more super armor". You might have noticed this yourself but once you perform any gear steps for the next 5 seconds all your actions are virtually uninterruptible no matter how hard the enemy hits you. In fact, almost NOTHING can stop you in that state. Depending on how much damage the next attack hits you for (say 15% hp), you can literally just be like "screw it" and super armor through it without having to interrupt your rotation by dodging. Abusing the super armor to continue doing as much damage as possible is also one of the keys to Ruina's DPS too. Keep that in mind!
              Last edited by CharginTool; 10-04-2016, 01:01 PM.
              IGN: CharginTool
              Discord ID: CharginTool #6299
              (9 ′︵‵ )9

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              • #8
                Okay, I didn't think about the fillers haha, I'll keep that in mind and I'll change my points to Twister Kick instead of follow up.

                For the Exploding Palm, you said that its one of the top priority but in your build you don't have any points in it so I'm assuming it's just top priority because of the reduction of elemental resist by 20% which would go well when I change elemental damage.

                It took me a while for me to get the hang of the combo haha. I kept forgetting to have my overcharge, I think it's called, on.

                Thanks for clarifying the infinite super armor part, I totally forgot about the class mastery. I'll try to keep it up as much as possible now.

                Also, thanks for helping me out with all my questions and making this class more understandable. I haven't any more questions at the moment, I think you covered all of the inquiries that I had. Sorry for all the questions and again, thanks for all the helpful information!

                Comment


                • #9
                  No prob! Enjoy the game man!
                  IGN: CharginTool
                  Discord ID: CharginTool #6299
                  (9 ′︵‵ )9

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CharginTool View Post
                    No prob! Enjoy the game man!
                    i have a few questions myself, regarding your build, other builds, and so far what my build will be. this is pretty much the "skeleton" i had in mind so far:
                    http://dnskillsim.herokuapp.com/na/r...-0---0--00--00

                    first job:
                    i noticed you maxed body check and left dash unmaxed, any reasons? since the damage isn't particularly spectacular and you can simply combo dashes into skills


                    second job:
                    now i have 5 points left over (can take a sixth or more from beyond the wall) and i noticed that several people decide to max steam release, why is that, to deal extra damage from the duck-release combo to recharge steam? and well i don't know endgame but am wondering if maxing stomp shuffle would be useful for the 90% chance of stunning enemies, i keep this skill in my quickslots due to the AoE from casting it without ducking.

                    i noticed you maxed twister kick, and it does have the highest damage of them all, but is it that good? i don't see it hitting all it's hits too often not to mention it throws you a good distance away so hitting all of overcharge seems very difficult, i'd love to hear your experiences with that. so far i have it quickslotted as a panic escape+beyond the wall button

                    i instead went for the skills with EX versions up to level 16/21 to take advantage of both the EX and the jump from multiples of 5 +1 skills, although i could max them with those 5 points left for a bit extra damage.

                    i'd like to hear your opinion on these, thanks in advance.
                    Last edited by Vadis; 10-09-2016, 09:06 AM.

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                    • #11
                      1st job:
                      There's a huge list of reasons why I maxed body check but tl'dr ver: I'm literally min-maxing my DPS as much as possible.

                      The first reason why I done this is because in the endgame you should realize by now that any machina, ruina's in particular, have absolutely no problems with MP whatsoever. This is because of the fact that you only consume MP from activating skills that have some sort of "EX" form from either specialization on it. (ex: Twister kick, beat down, kidney blow, follow-up, pressure burst). Since roughly 80-85% of your damage comes from inheriting damage from those skills via normal attacks and overcharge, neither of them consuming MP, you're barely consuming MP whatsoever. This ontop of the fact Overclock heals ~6% MP off a 10 second cool (which is more than enough to last you about 2 minutes of nonstop fighting) negates the use of both the MP gain and MP regeneration passive. So that's free 8 SP right there. What to use it on? Lariat? A skill that should never be used for DPS but rather mobility only? Level 6 minimum. Go ahead and maybe if you got leftover SP dump it in there I guess.

                      Second reason, is because body check is what I consider a "proxy" gear step. Probably thinking like "tf you mean by that?", well if you read the description of ducking, it says "Also activates off of pressing jump after doing 'body check'". This means if you've buffed yourself with pressure release, body check is 0 second cooldown gearstep (because it chains into other gear steps freely). So it'll always be there to reset the cool down of other gear steps when it's needed.

                      Patrona tree's SP believe or not, is pretty damn tight and doesn't have room to max two of the gearsteps i'd want. Otherwise i'd actually drop body check to 1 and max out the other two. But since the damage % of both elbow attack and body check combined equal to ~450% and depending on how fast your fingers are, canceling body to a gear step into a skill; is almost as fast as doing some of the gear steps into skills raw. That's more than all the other gearsteps at level one, and I didn't even make any sacrifices to what I want in the patrona tree.

                      Fourth reason, is because other than having to press other keys for the EXi, Pressure Burst and buffs. Body check allows you to start your rotation with minimum effort for your hands. You can literally DPS without having to touch any of the number keys. Space, LMB and RMB are all that's needed.

                      Lastly, if you do body check into gearsteps. It looks flashy and badass af I mean that's a lot of bonus points right there if you ask me.

                      As for the issue with dash. I never reset by build from 90 cap so, I only put what remaining SP I gained from leveling onto dash that's why. If I want to max dash out, I'd drop a point from my ulti (used almost purely for its extremely long iframe) and back into dash. EZ.
                      Last edited by CharginTool; 10-09-2016, 11:40 AM.
                      IGN: CharginTool
                      Discord ID: CharginTool #6299
                      (9 ′︵‵ )9

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                      • #12
                        2nd job:

                        If what you're talking about steam release being maxed that comes from Ruina builds. You're right it's filler, but that is actually an outdated tactic to gain some filler DPS while gathering steam. (Overclock was twice as slow at gaining steam back then and that was the faster tactic) and twister kick didn't inherit damage at the time so it you had a lot of leftover SP. I'd keep it at level 1 if you haven't already.

                        Bosses don't get stunned at all so that 90% chance is wasted. Also if you play around the style of using body check, the stomp animation of stomp shuffle (the only part that stuns enemies) doesn't come out at all most of the time. Do keep it in your quickslots though (all the gear steps really).

                        Twister kick is maxed not for each individual hits but for the total damage it does. Note that your normals and overcharge are always going to inherit damage assuming you hit the max hit count which is 3402%. That's the second highest damaging skill in your rotation and should be high priority for casting. If you're having awkward issues with controlling it, you can control the direction and how far it goes with the movement keys. Holding the back key in particular will keep you from straying too far off and sets you in a nice position to overcharge. If you want more hits off twister kick, instead doing it right in their face, do it about say...3-4 bodies away from the boss.

                        As for build leveling follow up, let me give you an example why its level 1. Here's my rotation for example.

                        1) Body check > duck > shuffle > Exploding palm (note that I don't EXi here, I want to go into pressure burst for max damage as soon as possible)
                        2) Step up (it cancels into other skills the fastest and provides super armor) > Pressure burst > OC > ducking (optional but saves some time for rotation)
                        3) Stm Rlse > ducking > Step up > twister kick (hold "S" to keep it as still as possible) > OC > ducking
                        4) Shuffle > Exploding Palm (pause just enough for the mini nado to come out) > EXi Kidney blow > OC > ducking
                        5) Stm Rlse > Kidney Blow > OC > ducking
                        6) Step up > Beat down > OC > ducking
                        7) Shuffle > Exploding palm > duck > Stm Rlse > knee kick > OC > ducking (at around THIS point, pressure burst is probably off or about to be off CD and I'll be restarting from the second step and putting step one after step 2)
                        ---------------------------Filler Line.
                        8) Shuffle > Follow-up

                        Note that other than the debuff (exploding palm): I start from my highest damaging skill to inherit to the lowest, but since it takes SO long to do all of that, pressure burst goes off CD and I just start over again. On top of all the possible dodging and movement you gotta do, there's pretty much zero time for follow up heck even knee kick sometimes. That's why I left it at one point.

                        Here's my final build before we're given awakening: http://dnskillsim.herokuapp.com/na/r...-0---0--00--00
                        Last edited by CharginTool; 10-09-2016, 12:28 PM.
                        IGN: CharginTool
                        Discord ID: CharginTool #6299
                        (9 ′︵‵ )9

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                        • #13
                          If you want a visual if what my rotation looks like:
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcPm...ature=youtu.be

                          There was some serious lag when I was recording so I couldn't bring out some inputs as quick I'd like to be. But it's about as quick as I could get it.

                          Bonus videos:
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZI1XZ08S6c
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW-DrQ9XmiY
                          Last edited by CharginTool; 10-09-2016, 12:40 PM.
                          IGN: CharginTool
                          Discord ID: CharginTool #6299
                          (9 ′︵‵ )9

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CharginTool View Post
                            If you want a visual if what my rotation looks like:
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcPm...ature=youtu.be

                            There was some serious lag when I was recording so I couldn't bring out some inputs as quick I'd like to be. But it's about as quick as I could get it.

                            Bonus videos:
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZI1XZ08S6c
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW-DrQ9XmiY
                            sorry about the late response, stuff happened plus went and checked some of the stuff you said, do note i'm still just level 59!

                            i'm aware that body check is great for initiating, i just find the damage and range a bit... lackluster, this skill however isn't really that important so i guess it's not much trouble to leave it to preference, although i'll see if i can max it, i do agree about the badass part, i'm a big fan of elbow-y pushes.

                            oh nice to know about the steam release, guess i can leave it at 1 then if it's not used as much, although it looks like a nice way to move around fast while suffering a seizure with my mouse.

                            i was wondering what was so good about pressure burst outside of the high damage, but i just noticed thanks to practice and your video, that it actually transfers the damage. i assume you skip the "oraoraora" part to go straight for the stronger final hit +overcharge right? and twister kick i'll have to get used to, pressing down really does reduce the air time and distance significatively. but has to be done beforecast

                            i need to practice comboing up, those videos are nuts, the third one especially i have no clue at all what you're doing. i'l probably end with a similar build to yours, but leaving lariat at 6 to max deus ex.

                            speaking of, how often do you use it? i assume you drop some ExKicks and ExSpins to deal extra damage while running away from the nado, but it sometimes seems to deal no damage.

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                            • #15
                              Always great for initiating yup. And you do it more than you think. But you're right though, its really up to personal preference. I'm just trying to min-max my build as I said before.

                              Like I said, before it's not about that skills themselves being good but how much damage they do theoretically as if you hit the full thing, even if you cut it short and skip certain parts. Since pressure burst at max level does a whopping 4000+% its the highest damaging skill Ruinas have. So yeah you're correct. Skip "oraoraorao" go straight to OC.

                              It took me a couple weeks to get the mechanics down and about month of just refining rotations, constantly trying to shave time to make them quicker. So take your time man. As for the third video it's actually really just a serious of RMB to LMB and repeating endlessly (it just looks insanely fast cause I was playing around with some action speed plates).

                              For deus ex, trying to get the max damage is not worth it since you have to be constantly on the move since you're constantly moving. You're not able to DPS yourself and doing my rotations vs the ulti. The rotation will win in terms of damage hands-down. It's only real use of it is for its very long iframe on the startup before the charge (which allows you to dodge dangerous stomps and mechs that could compromise alot of things). In terms of use, hardly ever. I've only really used it in only like...two or three bossfights and they all except for one I didn't even have to use it in the first place. I do recommend dropping it to level 1 for iframe usage only but its really up to you.

                              Note: Hitting walls and sometimes even the boss itself will make the hitbox of the nado invalid. If you got FPS issues like I do, sometimes the nado stays there even if it's caught up so you can't really see what you're doing. Really annoying glitch.
                              IGN: CharginTool
                              Discord ID: CharginTool #6299
                              (9 ′︵‵ )9

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