Thoughts on Barb changes and awakening?

[Xzine]

Ok, Mercs of DN what does everyone think of 93 barb and the awakening skills? Two days in and I have mixed thoughts at this point. We seem to have lost a lot of SA, especially in Iron Skin but have gained steady filler dps in the new stomp, bone cleaver, frenzy and overtaker. Overtaker for me has been...meh. It's as I expected and feared watching so many videos leading up to 93. It's extremely slow to get out and is a let down in dps with putting "ultimate cs" into the skill description. I seem to do greater dps with the plain old enhanced circle swing that we all know. I am still playing around with my dps rotations, so perhaps it will only become better with time and 93 gear.

Moving onto Lifesaver. This skill is anything but a "lifesaver." 35% loss of HP for 50 rage bubbles. Sounds awesome in the field before entering a nest or raid, but using it on the regular just seems silly. Why have a skill that reduces HP on a class that had it's masochistic characteristics taken away from them? I get the removal of PT buffs, but I'd take back the old lifesaver in a heart beat.

Havoc howl is....awesome. Full i-frame and self heal? YES! With my current 90 cap setup and lower defenses, this has gotten me out of several binds where I either lagged or just didn't dodge my best during a run. Nothing more to say here, I love the new Havoc howl.


I could go on, but I'd like to keep this short in order to receive feedback and comments.

My personal pros for 93 barb include:

-- better and more consistent dps, improved filler skills with notable damage, no longer masochistic, and still great for nests and pt support.

My personal cons for 93 barb include:

-- The new iron skin isn't great. it requires bubbles, duration is low and no SA capabilities despite the description. In fact, when I have it on everything seems to eat right through it. This is what separated us from glads and I wish they kept at least some of the T5 characteristics of IS, not this skill that we have now.
-- Overtaker is extremely slow to cast and damage is sub-par imo. Hopefully it will improve with time, gearing and better dps rotations. I cringe when I cast this, it's like pulling the choke out on a 2 stroke engine hoping it will start after it's sat for a year. Ugh.
-- We're still behind Glads, LK and perhaps even Destroyers now. Yes, I get it Destroyers have sucked for a very long time, but still. Limited IS time, lack of SA....I might as well CC to Glad.
-- Lifesaver...sucks. Period.


I am loyal to the class, and it's only two days into 93 cap here in NA, but if I had to give a rating I'd say 60% of me enjoys the new changes, but 40% of me feels it's still lacking and COULD have been made better. This can be said of any class, but having waited much of the year for 93 and the awakenings I'm a bit let down in a few areas. You win some and you lose some I suppose.



Z

[Constructive]

I'm a Destroyer, but I think I can weigh in here.

For PvP:
The reduced SA on Flying Swing is really questionable, especially for PvP. Like, why? Mercs are meant to be a high SA low iFrame class. Now they're a low SA low iFrame class. Even the awakening skills have low SA, even when they look like they should be super tanky skills. Also, the awakening skills (Overtaker? Assault Crash?) are a tad TOO slow. To the point that they just randomly drop opponents in the middle of the skill when you try to use them.
I don't like the new Devastating Howl. The 20 bubble consumption is overkill and the cooldown is back to 125sec even at max+1 for PvP. The iFrame is nice, but not worth the 75sec extra cooldown time.
Enervating Howl's silence is still glitchy, I'm pretty sure.
Why is Crisis Howl still on a 60sec CD when everyone else has such low CD counters/escapes?

I'm not planning on getting Lifesaver at all and I'm not sure I even want Iron Skin. 10SP per buff is too much investment.

Some of the Destroyer-specific stuff is great though. The new Flying Swing EXi finally makes it a useful skill, since it no longer shares cooldown with FS. On top of that, being able to change the range of Bombs Away makes it almost as good as it used to be, before they nerfed the range. Triple Rolling Attack seems a bit overkill, but I'll take it, lol.

For PvE:
I definitely use less of my skills than before.
I pretty much throw out Flying Swing and BA -> FS Exi off cooldown and intersperse it with Maelstrom Howl/Taunting Howl/Empowering Howl to support. That's pretty much all I have time for with the reduced cooldowns, but it feels like a pretty active playstyle compared to before.

[Anime Garbage]

I'm a PvP Barb, so can't really fill you in on the PvE semantics of it all.

But going into barb, I find it really a mixed bag.

Stomp Awake at first glance is meh, as it just launches them into the air, however in PvP its hilariously efficient at fucking up your opponents neutral game.
You bait them in by missing stomp and when they charge in to punish you, you take like, 2-3 hits, and then fwomp they're skyhigh, ready to eat a combo. This sets up for really good frame traps.
Stomp can lead to a good trap where they have to use rising attack to avoid the 2nd wave, but end up getting hit by a dash upper. The other case is just not using rising, but getting hit by the 2nd wave. Free lift.

I've never used Iron Skin much.

Overtake is a skill that needs a launch. You know what's a good launch? Stomp. It's such a perfect setup. Also, it's flashy as fuck.

The super armor nerf was hella unnecessary though IMO.

I'd say we're behind destroyers mostly. Crash Stance's SA amount and speed is spot on great. Destroyer specific skills are a bit overkill as well, and the oh baby a triple roll attack is scary as fuck. LK we're potentially behind because of their new buffs, but buffing an awful character just makes it good. When everyone learns the neutral for ML's and knows how to react, they'll simmer down. Glads is mostly a momentum battle, whoever capitalizes on the other's fuck up takes the majority of the game. Glad has overwhelming speed and iFrames, but Barb's AoE's and new stomp awakening uses that advanage of theirs against them super well.

Hierarchy for WA's in PvP IMO is Dest, LK, Barb=Glad, but the differences for barb glad and LK being not very substantial.

[Escorted]

I agree Overtaker is too slow and especially with how low SA we get without perm iron skin, it's easy for it to get canceled.

I think Lifesaver is great! Lifesaver>Deva Howl is fine and doesnt really hurt you much, though i do agree it needs a skill name change.

By 'misogynistic" you mean "masochistic"? Lol

I don't really know what to say, I feel at a loss for words and I'm not sure how to explain how I feel about current barb. It's missing the key things that made it great in t4 and honestly 90 cap.

[Xzine]

Are you evening running IS in your build? I am currently debating on removing it, but I'm doing further testing in IDN. Sometimes it has saved me and other times hits just eat right through it. Yes, masochistic, not sure how I misspelled that. What's your thoughts on the new fly swing? I have similar thoughts on this as I do IS. Works if perfectly timed and other times I'm juggled to hell and back.

I get we are losing a ton of SA, and I sort of understand why, but these characteristics are what make Barbarians...Barbarians. I love the new stomp and insta-BC, but overtaker is extremely slow and a massive loss in dps if not timed correctly. I feel like Barbs are a clunky glad now and we are forced to play with precision with non-precision skills. I've been a Barb main for awhile now and I love the class, I just hope ED brings some future changes to help clean up these small gaps in the gameplay.

Can you share with me your current skill plates for 93 and awakening?

[ZanarkandAbe]

Don't know how I feel, it's very different. When I first read the changes I was actually happy. I felt that with BC beaing instant we'd have better mobility in the battle field. I actually feel like Barb got slowed down.

[Xzine]

I don't know if we got slowed down, I think if anything we were forced to get faster due to the loss of our SA...which in a way is challenging but also kind of fun. We are forced to dodge mechs more now, provide solid utility and debuff pt support and dps with ww, cs and overtaker, stomp, bc.

My simple comparsion is as follows. 2 weeks ago I could hit IS, tank Scorpion in DDN, get hit all day long and have to wait to increase rage for my cs ex which was on a LONG cool down via taunting howl and run low HP. In between filler skills were garbage outside of WW (which was still meh), stomp was absolute shet, and BC and demo where there because well we were so debuff dependent.

Now post transfer, SA has gone to shet, and I'm finding myself having to make calculated decisions on when to stomp, demo, cs ex, th and now use overtaker...all while no longer having high SA or high uptime on IS. Sure our filler skills like stomp, bc insta and ww have drastically gone up, but I've lost the ability to take hits effectively at times despite the fact we get an awesome self heal now.

[Xzine]

I was perusing future contents and came across LEJAC11's compilation of patch notes coming out of KDN. Why does Barb always get the shaft in DN as opposed to the other warriors at least from a PVE perspective?



KDN: 6/7/16 Patch Notes: (Guild Content Update)

Barbarians
[Awakening Passive] Axe Mastery: Skill name is changed to Weapon Mastery
No need to equip Axe to use the skill anymore

Mercenary
Taunting Howl: DMG increase debuff is decreased to 10%

Barbarian
Circle Swing EX: Enhanced Circle Swing is decreased to 100%
Overtaker: Cooldown is changed to 45 seconds



KDN: 8/3/16 Patch notes: (Cleric/Tink Awakening)

Mercenary

Iron Skin
- Rage consumption is removed

Barbarian

Circle Swing EX
- Circle Swing EX rage consumption is reduced to 30 points

Overtaker
- Max rage consumption is reduced to 30 points




PROS:
- IS no longer takes rage, even though SA has been removed. This is a win even though the skill is meh.
- Rage consumption was reduced to 30 points. All I can say is, it's about time.


CONS/Nerfs:
- TH has been reduced to 10%. WHY!?
- Overtaker cd changed from 22sec to now 45sec. There goes the short lived 93 awakened class play and consistent DPS that I'm starting to now enjoy.
- Enhanced CS decreased to 100%. Not sure if this is overall in both swings, on the first or second???





I've been here since open beta, I just wish after 5 years of playtime these Dev's would leave well enough alone. Buff, then nerf, then awaken, then nerf. Ugh.

[Xzine]

NOTE: I just re-read the patch notes from 6/7/16. The changes to TH, CS EX and Overtaker are for PVP only. I overlooked this information when I originally posted on 10/5.

[Xzine]

Roughly 4 months in! Where are my barb PVE mains in NA? How many of you stuck with the class? Thoughts/comments?

I am working on a future class sticky, stay tuned!

[Inaros]

They bandwagon to destro bro

[Iloveyoubb]

I think barbarians are kind of dead in PVE tbh. I like building up rage to get the final circle swing and overtaker off but it kinda makes him into a burst guy instead of a dps because those skills are his only real damage source.
Bone cleaver is very nice but I can't seem to get the reset off because its hard for me to hit the dash kick (or maybe that's just me being bad idk).
I also LOVE how tanky he is because of iron skin and the heal on devastating howl