To anyone who spent actual money on the game on stuff like VIP and Pro Pack. I doubt they will compensate you so just take the loss, its ED we are talking about after all.
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Eyedentity scammed players as well
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That's not a scam.
If you walk into a restaurant and order food and violate the restaurant policy by, like let's say, smoking in a non smoking place or starting a fight, they have every right in the world to throw your ass out of their place of business and keep your money for food you ordered, whether you ate it or not.
I'm not sure you're aware of this but, the players don't own DN. ED does.
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That's not a right example. Its like you walk in Domino's and order a Barbecue Chicken Pizza then they add lobster topping on your Pizza. After you found this out you and your friends + Neighbors ( 450 peoples ) order another 30 each. What do you think Domino's would do? Please think before you answer. Since your an ED fan boy you prob reply oh Domino's will Ban all those customers? Lmao Let me tell you the answer. They won't do anything to the customer cause they know its their own Fault. They prob sack the one who make this mistake.
The majority of the playerbase are only a bit upset that they got ban but they are more outrage cause we didn't get a server roll back. Please stop defending ED for their lack of Judgement in this matter. Some players inform me that your a 31 years old man, if you were you would have some life experience and would see this matter differently.Originally posted by Zengeroff View PostThat's not a scam.
If you walk into a restaurant and order food and violate the restaurant policy by, like let's say, smoking in a non smoking place or starting a fight, they have every right in the world to throw your ass out of their place of business and keep your money for food you ordered, whether you ate it or not.
I'm not sure you're aware of this but, the players don't own DN. ED does.
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Zengeroff If you're going to compare it like that, then at least make it fair. It's as if a restaurant put ketchup on the table to use and then made us pay for it the next day. That's what ED did. There were no warnings. They just expected everyone to know not to do it. It wasn't basic knowledge like not being allowed to smoke in a non-smoking area.
I'm not banned, but I understand how most of the people feel about this. Also, everyone here can see how strongly you feel about ED's decision being right, but try opening your mind a bit. You're building some bad karma by expressing yourself in such a bad manner, with little to no understanding of other people's opinion.
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For clarity,
I don't think ED is right in their approach BUT that doesn't mean the players aren't wrong to exploit an error.
I'm of the opinion that this whole thing has been handled poorly and there's plenty of blame to go around.
ED was at fault for the exploit existing.
Many in the playerbase are at fault for using the exploit and breaking the economy.
This isn't hard guys.
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So its cause the players fault so lets not have a solution to this problem. Man you and the guy who manage NA have the same way of thinking its scary. Listen Running a business there always obstacle its how you manage and resolve it. So from what your trying to say its players fault so ED can choose not to fix this issues. I give up reasoning with you =)
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I suppose my real question here is this,
If you all want a rollback because you broke the economy, why the fuck did you break the economy by using the exploit in the first place?
I get it, if you didn't use the pouches and still got banned, that's shitty but there's so many people who willingly grinded BHT with the sole purpose to get the rarestones for gold.
Why bitch about it in retrospect?
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LMAO do you think the majority of the banned players cared about the actual ban?!! No, to most people , this can consider it a break from DN. The reason why so many vets are quitting and selling their accounts right now is because of the after affects of this tragedy which ruin the entire economy. I would happily take a month's ban if ED actually put some effort into fixing the problem or attempt to lessen it.
Also try stepping into the shoes of these Veteran Players who were around for a long time and worked hard form multiple caps to get to where they are today and now boom all their efforts are gone
Since you like setting up scenarios so much-let me set one up in honor of you
Let say you worked your ass off in your job for multiple years hoping to get noticed by the higher echelons in hopes of getting a promotion which you 100% deserve because of your dedication.
But then a new guy comes in , 1 month in and he already got a promotion and either becomes your equal or an even higher position than you.
How would you feel?Last edited by RadiantDonut; 01-13-2018, 05:35 PM.
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It honestly depends on if they were qualified to be my equal or superior.
Being in a game longer doesn't necessarily mean you're better at it. I'd know. I've been here since beta lol and I consider myself marginally average at best but I play to have fun. It's not super serious to me.
You left out something important in the scenario. The new guy at work got the position because the boss chose them for it. Many at work were found to have been breaking rules in the workplace. Just be glad you didnt get demoted and that you still have a job.
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Zengeroff Here lemme explain this for you since you can't seem to grasp anything about this at all.
There are 3 types of people who got banned and I'll explain them all for you.
The innocent - Wow yes believe it or not there WERE some people who didn't know about this !!!!. I had to tell some players about the patch the night of because they don't check the website so it would not surprise me that some of them actually didn't know. Do I think it's a large percentage? No, it's probably the smallest which then brings us to the second group of people.
The abusers - these are the ones that ran 10+ runs on one or more characters and tried to hide it everywhere they could. They're the ONE s that bought out the market and sold everything as high as they could in order to get whatever they could. Now some if not most believed this wouldn't last but they tried and ran everything they could to get the most out of this problem. This group is probably larger than the innocent but less than the largest group.These are the ones that should be banned IF ANYONE but I'll try to explain the fair way of determining exploits after this last group.
The memers- Now this group is the largest group of people that were more than likely late to the party. These people almost all 100% expected a rollback and either did it for the memes or to at least get something and not be put behind the other people. Overall these people probably did less than 10 total runs.
So what does this mean?- well, the innocent didn't know what was going on, just expected to run bht normally so they don't care about a roll back because it wouldn't mean anything to them. The abusers are probably the only group that don't want a rollback but they don't care one way or another because they do realize how stupid the scenario is. The memers were the group that EXPECTED the rollback and did it as a joke or to just not be put so far behind.
So why a rollback?- well, the gold the abusers farmed is already in the economy. People who didn't even open the pouches because they knew they'd get rollbacked aren't gaining anything from this error and people who didn't run bht but just sold 300 garnet at 1kg each made 300k of fraudulent cash and they're still allowed to play. THIS IS THE PROBLEM ABOUT THE BANs. A rollback is a much simpler approach.
Now let me say one more thing before I get to this last point. NOT MANY PEOPLE ARE MAD AT THE BAN BUT EVERYTHING ELSE ABOUT THE SITUATION. It was handled so poorly with such a poor excuse when rollbacking was such an easy option(tho they prob pulled a dn eu again).
Bug vs exploit- So LEMME clarify this before I start, if you abuse a bug or exploit, yes it's abuse. But here's where the difference should be made. If you do something out of the normal in order to produce abnormal results, it's an exploit. Examples of this are the velskud bug. You had to run a run as velskud(which isn't something people do normally) to produce higher than your normal dps and we're able to clear shit such as rudn with low gear. This is an exploit. If you do this, you as the player are more at fault. A bug on the other hand is this bht one. You didn't have to alter anything you did, you just ran the run and got the reward. This is more on ed than it is on the players. Yes it's still partially your fault but this doesn't warrant a ban so much as velskud exploits or other things.
So now that this has been explained for you maybe you can get off the forums for more than 10 minutes at a time and spend some time with friends or family.Last edited by amelones; 01-13-2018, 07:09 PM.
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Amelones while i do agree with your post just wanted to add that there is also a 4th group of people who got banned. They were testing everything in the patch including BHT and Nightmare abyss. They also fully expected a rollback, but were thoroughly testing and providing feedback. I was part of that group, testing everything from the drop rate changes in abyss 95 dungeons, to slayer, to the mini board game to the success rate of the hammers of enhancement.
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Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiii that's me. Ran ~15 times to verify, which happened to be more than 2 but a lot less than 31 or 62 or 124 (because who the hell bases their results on a sample size of 2). No rarestones were redeemed, I stopped doing anything ingame after the runs, reported the bug via Player GM and 1:1 ticket, and played other games while I waited for the shitstorm to blow over, but ED decided to gift me a ban!
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That's unfortunate Vahr, I did hear about you contacting GM's early on to rectify the issue but your case is definitely in the minority if not likely one of the handful of cases. Lol Piliken is apparently a tester now? Did you report anything to the GM's? Do you have evidence to show you were trying to be a part of the solution and not the problem? or were you just "testing" for your own personal knowledge? Either way send a ticket, I'm sure after ED is done sorting through all this they may compensate you. Until then you have to understand they have to deal with 400+ characters/accounts in the red zone of potential exploitation.
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This Zengeroff individual is starting to sound like LunarForce.
From someone who has quit the game for a year and a half and does not care about the ban at all, I can say that with no bias. What ED did was the incorrect decision, but it is what it is. That is why their game has been going downhill every month. The consistently make the wrong decisions.
I've seen how other games take responsibility from their own bugs and poorly executed patches, but not Dragon Nest.
Dragon Nest Savior
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Originally posted by Zengeroff View PostI suppose my real question here is this,
If you all want a rollback because you broke the economy, why the fuck did you break the economy by using the exploit in the first place?
I get it, if you didn't use the pouches and still got banned, that's shitty but there's so many people who willingly grinded BHT with the sole purpose to get the rarestones for gold.
Why bitch about it in retrospect?
​​​​Originally posted by Zengeroff View PostI cannot for the life of me understand why you people don't understand what you did.
It's baffling.
it's true that players shouldn't be abusing bugs or things that aren't intended, but everywhere you go in life there's always going to be that one person who does bad things anyways. idealistically it'd be great to teach everyone to be good and moral people, but that's not realistic. the realistic thing is to do something that addresses/adapts to said evil-doers and keeps the whole operation going!
it's like if you went to the store and people get shopping carts, they're supposed to bring it back, but you always get those people who just leave em in the parking lot. we can point at them and say "it's their fault for leaving those carts around! someone should teach them to put those carts back!" and you wouldn't be wrong! but those carts at the end of the day are still there. we need a practical way to keep people coming to the store and have shopping carts (and parking spaces) there for them, so how lots of store address that is by hiring someone to round them up, sort of like shopping cart cowboys
the way that parallels this situation with Dragon Nest is that there are those bad people (who should be punished), and ED had a way to adapt to what happened, and that was to rollback; instead, they chose to do what they did, and now all our shopping carts are scattered across the parking lot .. uwu this is something that will make the entire player base suffer even though it's a result of the people who exploited it. the players who had nothing to do with it have no way to fix it, which is why moving the blame from the party who had all the power to fix it is just not right, greatly resembling a red herring in an argument ;~; that logic really throws innocent players under the bus ..
Edit: when i say players who had nothing to do with it, i mean people like me who didn't even touch BHT, not the people who ran it but didn't know about the exploit (i only have one character, and i just got it to windwalker today)Last edited by ChubbyPuppy; 01-13-2018, 09:22 PM.
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You know things are going crazy when Zengeroff is the voice of reason LOL.. Stop exploiting and expecting to get off with no repercussions. All of you need to shut up already, you were wrong, get over yourselves. ED doesn't care about what you think is best for the financial stability of their intellectual property. They obviously know this will affect profits and still did it. The lot of you should probably worry about not making stupid decisions in the future rather than what the state of the game is going to look like after you all magnified a mistake/bug.
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Smile I was comparing how ED reacted to exploiters to other companies......... You pointed out absolutely nothing of substance. If you can't see that, you can't be helped. None of what you're talking about is of any relevance to the discussion at hand.
Shushuu Oh sorry, the same critical thinking skills responsible for you thinking exploiters deserve anything other than a ban is probably the same thought process that can't seem to understand what I'm saying. When I say they don't care what you think, it is obviously in the context of how to deal with people who are exploiting and breaking the rules within their intellectual property. Companies only care about what you think in terms of how to get you to further spend time/money on their products, everything else is none of their concern. Not every company spends millions on PR and many do adopt a style of not caring what people think at all and are still profitable business'. So again, they earned what they got.
Do you have any proof of overwhelming amounts of gold still existing in the economy? I'm sure ED welcomes your help in rectifying the issue, if not, run along. As I've said before the market has returned back to its normal status and you should know that if you're not banned. Ruhc acc's are the only thing I currently see at higher prices and it makes sense since most of the teams running it were/are full of opportunistic exploiters. There are numerous reasons why a rollback potentially could not have been an option, either way, you're diverting from the fact that people did something they knew was wrong and earned the punishments they got.
I am using my brain, it seems yours, however, is bogged down by the snooze button. "Probably won't read" I like characters like you, reply and jump ship because you're spouting literal nonsense and can't seem to face the fact that the position you hold may actually be ridiculous.
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BountyKiller While I support the temp ban to make the community not rely/assume rollbacks will always happen with possible game-breaking bugs, ED's abuse policy according to their website for "Duping and Exploiting Bugs" is "Fourteen (14) days Game Account Ban [and a] Mandatory Inventory Wipe for all characters." (this punishment would be a bit much for 421 accounts, so i think a 7 day ban is ok). Now, please tell me when the last time ED has given this punishment (or any ban) to any *bug exploiter*? Personally, I can't remember one instance. However, many players remember the rollback from Saygo causing a game-changing bug that many people exploited (granted, this was under Nexon). So, it shouldn't seem too* wrong to assume that ED was going to do a rollback and not really punish anyone, given their history. Is it still wrong? Yes. Like many have said, exploiting a bug is against ToS, so technically, that's a foul.
I hope I'm not too wrong about this when I try to speak for most people here, but what I believe most people on the forums are mainly* complaining about is the way ED handled the entire thing. The ban was honestly unexpected to many (I don't think hundreds of players would've exploited a bug that was game-breaking and reported, if they knew they were gonna get banned). Some say they don't deserve a ban, but that's because banning 421 accounts in a rather small game while not completely fixing the damage done (no rollback) doesn't seem very logical, especially when they hardly, if ever, give out bans to bug exploiters. They won't really care what the ToS say if they believe ED never enforces their policies. Its like saying something is against the law, but never enforcing the law until a large amount (majority?) break it. Clearly that is going to make a bunch of people upset, despite having broken the law.
There's also other things in EDs policy that go unpunished and give further reason to not expect a ban, but I think my point was made. (ED did something wrong and so did the players.)
My goal of saying all of this to you is to hopefully convince you to cut some of the forum posters complaining here a little slack. Their complaints aren't completely* unjustified. The longer there is no rollback, the less likely it seems it will happen since more and more people become negatively effected by a rollback (the non-abusers). People who just leveled a few characters would lose all of that progress. So, the more complaining they do, the more likely there will be a rollback (maybe. I don't really remember the last time ED has listened before, but still, if there's a chance, why not.) So, if they want to complain and you want a rollback, I don't see the logic in telling the complainers they're wrong, since that just causes arguing (most of which has already been said in previous posts) and doesn't seem very productive.
Tho, if you enjoy arguing and don't want a rollback, feel free to keep calling the playerbase children, etc. and doing what you're doing. So far, in these comments, you've made progress with that.
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SkitzoRoy I agree a total inventory wipe may be too excessive for 421 characters/accounts. I don't really need to point to a specific area in which they have taken those actions, the point is it's in the ToS and they are able to alter it anytime they see fit. Making a stink because they gave a lesser punishment than otherwise stated is a bit silly. When you break a social contract, the authority responsible for addressing the break is capable of adjusting it to a degree. In the very same section which you are siting it states "3. Mandatory Inventory Wipe refers to wiping of all characters" items, in-game currency and storage within the same Dragon Nest Game Account across all servers unless stated otherwise.". Nexon is a different company and as I said the devs have the ability to adjust the punishment as they see fit. We are in total agreeance that the bans are justified.
That's the thing though, you can't convince me or any reasonable person for that matter that exploiters weren't aware of the possibility of being banned. The only people I feel sorry for are people in special cases like Vahr or perhaps brand new players who may have fallen victim to this. If you aren't in a circumstance that is similar to those, you earned your punishment(you in a general sense, not you personally). I have heard similar arguments made by others and I have yet to see evidence that there is any remaining damage from the issue. As I've said to others previously, if you have proof send it to ED and I'm sure they will have no problem addressing it. Just because you get a warning for speeding multiple times doesn't mean you can suddenly complain the moment you get a ticket, that's not how things work. When that majority decides to start speeding, the roads become exponentially more dangerous and thus it becomes even more of a necessity for the laws to be enforced. Complainers don't matter, you broke the law/rule and you know the law/rule and that is all there is to it.
I'm sorry but I do not believe they deserve any slack. Their complaints are completely unjustified and I feel like if you found yourself doing something you know is wrong, the best thing you can do to better not only your current situation but future ones as well is to own up to what you did, accept the consequences, and learn from it. Make better decisions in the future, think before you do something, weigh the pro's and con's of the situation. If you couldn't handle a 7-day ban you have no business doing the activities that took place. If ED did as they said and are continuing to verify the issue is solved over the course of these 7 days(as it seemed they are in their post) I see no reason a rollback needs to take place.
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I doubt the game will die. How many times has this kind of hysteria happened on this forum. I really doubt ED cares how things affect the economy for this server and I'm sure you all know it. They cause this mess x2 and expect you to deal with it.
Accept this treatment or leave, it is wishful thinking at best to think that complaints and suggestions here mean anything.
This thread and others like it probably won't even exist next week, because that is how much they care about how their actions affect all of you. It is wishful thinking at best to think they are above this mentality.
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