Is DN "P2W": A Discussion

[Hekaiyo]

So I've seen a lot of talk around here about whether or not DN has become "P2W" or how unfair or unwanted it is. I'd like to give my thoughts here on this problem.

To start, to "Pay to Win" essentially boils down to exchanging real world money for an in-game advantage. If you can do this, then the game is "P2W." However, almost all games provide some sort of method to accomplish this: Path of Exile allows purchasing of "Premium Stash Tabs" that not only increase your storage space, but also allow you to sell items and participate in trade. This is undoubtedly an advantage, yet PoE is not under fire for being "P2W." Similarly, Maplestory's Reboot server allows you to buy pets that help you pick up gold and drastically increases meso gain. But simultaneously, many people tout the Reboot server as the antithesis of Pay to Win. Why is this? Essentially in every non-purely-skill-based multiplayer game, you can Pay to Win in some sort, whether officially sanctioned or not. If you have the funds and the desire, then there is always a way to obtain at least a slight advantage.

So why is DN different? I think the core difference between these examples and DN's current situation is the sheer efficiency and viability of "Paying to Win." Shelling out $200 in DN will give you a massively larger advantage over someone who hasn't, whereas in other games the difference between a P2Winner and a F2Player is much smaller. When people complain about DN being "P2W," I think they are really referring to this efficiency of Cash to In-Game-Value.

This problem also heavily depends on just what you think it means to "Win" at the game. Whether or not P2W is a problem will depend greatly on if you want to be stronger than everyone else, or always get the first clear, or be Diamond 1 in ladder, or simply just have fun in easy content. Not everyone's perspective is the same, and some will see this as a larger problem than others; if you play DN for the PvP scene, then this whole deal is almost a non-issue, but if you play to be the most geared on the server, then this is very relevant.

What do you all think? Has DN become too "P2W?"

Addendum: I think that the very most fundamental cause for the escalation of P2W in cash gear is the gearing system in DN and how hugely big the differences are between gear tiers. This immense power creep has forced new gear to become orders of magnitude stronger than pre-existing gear, eventually resulting in the situation now. This is not totally relevant anymore, however, so I will only shortly mention it.

[Hoest]

tldr

[Lemon]

It's mostly the gear creep/costume bonuses that makes all the current content literally braindead\

well it really only hurts new players and widens the gap with the good and trash classes

[Durandal]

One can debate and rationalize the facts as they choose. It does not alter the fact that the game has been entirely redesigned to benefit casual pay to winners, shit on veterans with mediocre content and leave everyone else in the dust. Until this new system is debilitated or gutted entirely, this fact is not up for debate. Circlejerking and suggesting alternatives that fall on deaf ears and empty promises has proven fruitless.

[Tortellini]

Well, like you said it's mainly an issue of how much the items that are obtainable by paying and/or gambling in Dragon Nest are affecting the game.

It is advantageous in Maple Story's Reboot server to purchase a pet and continually pay to revive it, but the cost is so minimal that it isn't really perceived as completely awful even though manually picking up items without one is excruciatingly slow. The various cash costumes and accessories that are regularly being released with increasingly higher stats in Dragon Nest are extremely costly though as well as heavily luck based to obtain and to keep up and have the best gear requires a very significant monetary and/or gold investment (if attempting to obtain the ec items with in game gold) because the stats you gain from them are hard to ignore. To be competitive in gearing in Dragon Nest now would require you to spend a lot and at the rate they release these new items you'd likely need to spend magnitudes more than you would ever spend on pets in Maplestory's Reboot server for years. These type of huge stat increasing items create a multitude of balance issues and perception issues as well which is why Dragon Nest is under fire and has been continuously under fire for being too "p2w". Going too far down the rabbit hole of paid stat increasing items is very difficult to escape as a developer and it shrinks the potential audience for a game.

[Zazzarayq]

+1 Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Brook]

No. End of discussion.

[Snobu]

You're fooling yourself and everyone

[Dom]

Actually, he's not fooling anyone.

[LordVoldemor]

I think everyone can still do decently without paying excessive amounts of money. I did spend a lot on the Iona set, but I haven't gone for anything else since then, other than 1 or 2 rajuul items. You guys need to stop worrying about who has the best costume and what not. I know it sounds great and the stats on the new costumes are ridiciously high but concentrate more on in-game armor/weapons that you can obtain, and then maybe you will find the game more fun. I'm a saint player so I don't really worry about my damage, but I still work hard as a team leader for IDN and have made a lot of friends and met new people in the process. The game itself is truly a bit boring if you think about it...spam the same moves over and over, kill the same monsters over and over. However, you can make the experience creative and different for yourself by meeting new people, sharing ideas, and trying new things. For example, I have always disliked pvp but my friend invited me to a tournament match and I loved it. At the same time, anything in excess is bad for you. If DN is making you angry, then take a break. So many people I know have been quitting and I can't blame them for it. However, remember this is a Korean made game. The culture there is different, and the games are different. It's not only about you, it's about everyone in your group. Everyone has to pull their weight to succeed in the nest. Maybe if you think of it that way, the game will seem more challenging and fun. And when you overcome doing HC, it'll feel like a big accomplishment. Honestly my costume is the thing I worry the least about. I only have 1 police item, and no I don't have any engineer items. I even only have 1 IDN-L grade headgear. I don't buy runs, and I don't buy gold (if you do that's fine, but this is just me personally). Try to help out new players, be friendly to people, make friends, and help to contribute to a better gaming environment.

[Zengeroff]

Although I have spent quite a bit of money on this game, it is entirely possible to become a top tier player without ever doing so.

Also, even if it were p2w, so what?

The world is filled with haves and have nots. Non paying players have the same options to pay or not pay like everyone else.

At the end of the day ED is a company. Them receiving adequate compensation for a service they provide is well within their bounds.

This argument is stale and irrelevant.

Companies need to have a positive return on investment in order to stay afloat.

Like it or not, ED doesn't owe us anything.

Their game. Their servers. Their time, effort and bottom line.

[Dark]

This is precisely the problem, not everyone has the option to pay as much as ED is demanding to get what they want.

[Zengeroff]

If they can't pay what ED asks then they shouldn't have it.

[Summ]

You're right ED is a company and as a company their movie right now is cash grab then shutdown. If they wanted to make money they would focus on fixing the game and making it better for new players. Instead theyre milking the remanents of the playerbase until they either have a certain amount or arent making a certain amount. You have no idea how big of a turn-off the "p2w" tag is for new players, ESPECIALLY when veterans and the majority of the community agrees it is p2w. If ED contibues this path I dont see DN NA making it to 2018

[Dom]

ofc it's p2w... It's borderline p2p because of propack and skill crest, and now we got these costumes that give better stats than lgrades. Almost everyone that still plays has the new engineer set, simply because it's better to buy a fkn costume than get better gear... WHAT A FUN GAME

[DrewBear]

Guy's what are we talking about. Pay to Win. What is your definition of winning? Clearing all content? You can get that done without paying real money. Everyone wins, some are just weaker. You can pay to play and feed your DN ego power trip though.

[Summ]

You dont feel like you're winning when you work your ass off for months to get to a certain point and you see a guy who paid for stuff in one day surpass you. It demeans your whole experience up till then.

[ceruulean]

well idk I spent a lot of police set only for it to get outdated; it still has the same value as racer in terms of real money spent so that's why I haven't switched, at this point I just buy new rare costumes or char slots

but I mean it ticks me off to see replacing police with racer will double your dps (not an exaggeration)

maybe I can afford to run rudnhc with police as a support class but the dps on my team felt the pressure to invest in racer and it disgusts me that I feel like I have to so I don't get carried

of course if they unified the epic set bonuses I wouldn't feel so bad, since unique costumes are already out I don't see why they can't do this

[Rinkie]

At this point who cares, I just am baffled at the prices of new items. Where that 5k spending tier, just give us broken gear not EC, just make it full swipe swipe.