question for fellow sorcs, re: fd

[Some Asian Guy]

Pardon me if this has been asked many times, but I need some answers. I recently decided to shoot for some fd and currently have 2.6k. I was told that 10% or around 2.4-2.5k fd was the "curve" and when one could start seeing an increase in their damage? (please correct me if i'm wrong). However, my damage numbers in nests/raids are still in the same range; I havent noticed any sort of increase whatsoever. So I guess the question is, at what % or around what number did you start seeing a significant increase in your damage? Thanks a lot if you answered.

[ceruulean]

Someone did the math and basically after 14% FD starts scaling really hard. So at low Fd, 300 fd only gives like 3% for 90 cap content. At higher and higher fd, 300 gives 5% and so on. 2.6k fd is only borderline so you won't notice anything until you increase it more.

[Zazzarayq]

Someone created a Google Spreadsheet for a final damage calculator. You can use that to get a better sense of how much final damage you need to reach a certain percentage, and compare the changes in final damage at different amounts.

Good luck gearing!

-Zazz

[Tiyara]

did u try it in IDN 4 man or IDN raid if u r in a team?

IDN is 90 content so 2600 FD would be a lot more efective there than in PKN or TKN.

[Some Asian Guy]

yeah i did, hence the thread

[Tiyara]

Oh i see :^^

[Fabulous]

2600 FD is about 14% for level 90 content. By curve, they mean that's when your FD% will start to increase exponentially. It doesn't have to do with how that FD affects you. FD is literally just a % of your own damage. So if you've had, say, 2400 for a while, which is 13%, and then you recently got 2600, that's only a 1% increase in damage. However, this does mean that your FD% will increase faster from now on (smaller increment additions to your FD will be enough to bump it 1%).

[Fox Says Meow~]

heres some math about fd, if ur not interested, u can jump to conclusion

fd formula is max( 0.35 x fd / fd cap, ( fd / fd cap) ^ 2.2 )
max(a,b) means choose a or b, whichever is higher
0.35 x fd / fd cap is the linear part, ( fd / fd cap) ^ 2.2 is the exponential part
if u solve for 0.35x = x^2.2, u will get x=41.69% of fd cap. if u plug it back into fd formula, u will get 14.59%
thats why people say 15% is the turning point of fd, where it grows exponentially instead of linearly
for 90 cap, 41.69% x 6367 = 2654. so u need 2654 fd for it to grow exponentially

why exponentially is good? because it counteracts diminishing return. linear suffers really hard from diminishing return
think 10k for 100k increase, thats a 10% increase. but when u already have 200k, the 10k increase is merely 5%
although u spend same amount of gold to get the 10k, the 2nd 10k u get is much less effective than the 1st 10k

exponential growth counteracts that very well
at 3000 fd (19.1%), an addition of 300 fd (=3300 fd, or 23.6%) will give 23.6%-19.1% = 4.5% more fd%
at 5000 fd (58.6%), an addition of 300 fd (=5300 fd, or 66.8%) will give 66.8%-58.6% = 8.2% more fd%
at 5300 fd (66.8%), an addition of 300 fd (=5600 fd, or 75.4%) will give 75.4%-66.8% = 8.6% more fd%
so as u can see, 300 fd is getting more effective by having more base fd, the exact opposite of diminishing return (same amount is less effective when u have higher base value)

thats where the "fd is so strong as u get more and more" comes from

however, theres one problem people ignored: u cant compare the raw fd% because it is also affected by fd% of its own
if u take that into consideration, fd growth suddenly isnt so amazing anymore
at 3000 fd (19.1%), an addition of 300 fd (=3300 fd, or 23.6%) will give 123.6%/119.1% = 3.74% more dps
at 5000 fd (58.6%), an addition of 300 fd (=5300 fd, or 66.8%) will give 166.8%/158.6% = 5.06% more dps
at 5300 fd (66.8%), an addition of 300 fd (=5600 fd, or 75.4%) will give 175.4%/166.8% = 5.16% more dps
as u can see, next 300 fd only gives 0.1% more dps than the previous 300 fd
it is still opposite of diminishing return, but the effect is much like linear, rather than exponential like what people describe/believe

the last 300 fd (6067->6367) will make ur fd% go from 90% to 100%, which u will be really happy because "i just got 10% more dmg"
in reality, u only gained 5.3% more dmg, because 200%/190%

in conclusion:
fd grows exponentially, but dps growth resulted from fd growth acts very much linearly
once u past 15%, if ur 1st fd plate doesnt give u much dps increase, dont expect ur last fd plate to give u a lot of dps increase, they will be about the same
fd is pretty much a linear investment, sad but true

[Aiko]

what the fuck foxy

[Fox Says Meow~]

hi step *waves*

[SwiftTyphoon]

Minor technicality: "exponential" growth would take the form of something like 2 ^ (fd / fd cap), this growth is actually roughly quadratic, which is far far slower than real exponential growth, which is what people are probably thinking of when everyone hypes FD over "exponential growth".

Glad to see some people still work out the math. Gonna add that technically skill plates and certain class buffs (warden, lencea, raven) add to diminishing returns and should be factored in, but those can't be considered in any "general" calculation I suppose.

Also gonna add that 14.59% is actually the _worst_ point to be at, because you've put in a substantial amount of effort for _none_ of the good growth. I wouldn't recommend FD to anyone unless they can reach maybe 25% or so.

[Inquisite]

Defiiii knows all
Defi solos IDN HC
Defi FD GOD
all worship and stalk defi
Maybe some of defis opness will rub off!!!!!!!
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa