Announcement

**krave** · 09-17-2017, 10:32 AM

Sir Jovion,

I would like to ask about the recent change/update in KDN that affects us Inquisitors.
I just want to know if the changes nerfed or buffed Inqui's Enhanced Grand Cross and Enhanced Holy Burst?

**Jovion** · 09-18-2017, 07:14 AM

It is an overall buff, bar one big assumption.

The summary is this:

GC: 1019% -> 3033%
HB: 1034% -> 2052%

GCv2: 400% down to 150%
HBv2: 500% down to 200%.

Now, the assumption I am making is that the v2 skills (Consecrated HB/GC) are still + and not *.

Currently the values are +400% and +500%, so GCv2 is actually x5 of GC (100% base + 400% = 500%) and HBv2 is x6 of HB (100% base + 500% = 600%), a quick Berlin weapon test would confirm this (I confirmed this in my tests after Awakening).

In other words, if your base skill is x, the Consecrated versions adds +4x and +5x rather than *4 and *5, this yields x+4x = 5x and x+5x = 6x respectively rather than x*4 = 4x and x*5 = 5x.

So basically:

GCv2: 1019% * 5 = 5095%
HBv2: 1034% * 6 = 6204%

Now let's take a look at the post-changes.

If the Consecrated versions are still +150% and +200% and NOT *150% and *200%, it should be:

GCv2: 3033% * 2.5 = 7582.5%
HBv2: 2052% * 3 = 6156%

So in otherwords, HBv2 remains unchanged, GCv2 is a decent buff AND GCv1 and HBv1 actually hurt rather than deal token damage.

So the effect is that it is a buff. The impact of which however is debatable. GCv2 is nice, but GCv1 and HBv1 are dead bottom of our rotation. Even if they were buffed, we might not actually feel it because so many other skills take priority over them due to higher DPS or simply better rotational value (i.e. the other skills have interactions with our other skills/passives, GCv1 and HBv1 has no interaction to speak of).

BUT, BUT, if the dev team messed up and changed it to multipliers rather than additions (i.e. *150% and *200%) then you are looking at a big nerf, which is unwarranted given we are actually in need of a buff. So hope they didn't mess up.

**ArvinALQ** · 09-23-2017, 03:07 AM

jovion pls release the pure pvp skill build for 95cap thanks!

**Godspeed** · 10-15-2017, 04:55 AM

I have a question, when I execute the mind breaker using dash + right click it produces the normal one. Is it a bug or do I really need to put the skill in the hotkeys. Thanks

**Adhelaida** · 10-16-2017, 09:38 AM

So Lightning Bold CD > Detonate Dmg, didnt know that. Im wondering why dont you just remove Dive Kick, 1 SP from Mind Conquer and 1 SP from HJ to can get maxed both Charge Bolt and Chain Lightning

**Jovion** · 10-16-2017, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by Adhelaida View Post

So Lightning Bold CD > Detonate Dmg, didnt know that. Im wondering why dont you just remove Dive Kick, 1 SP from Mind Conquer and 1 SP from HJ to can get maxed both Charge Bolt and Chain Lightning

On the LB vs Deto DMG plate, I'll pull this from my thread on the old forums:

Detonate DMG: Assuming it affects the Enhanced version. Affected by RNG.

Lightning Bolt CD: Lightning Bolt CD reduces LB from 13 sec to 10 seconds. While on its own the skill itself does not offer a comparable damage boost VS Holy Burst or Detonate, the extra benefit is that you gain your extra Spear every 10 seconds rather than every 13 seconds.

That equates to an extra Spear every 1 minute (60 sec, 13 sec CD = ~5 spears per minute, 10 sec CD = ~6 spears per minute).

Some napkin math:

Detonate DMG Plate: ~4081.35% (this accounts for a enhanced Deto proc) * 0.2 = 816.27% every 12 seconds OR ~4061.35% per minute

Lightning Bolt CD: (2240% * 60/10.4) - (2240% * 60/13) = 12923.08 - 10338.46% = 2584.62% per minute PLUS 1 extra Spear of 3062% per minute for total 5646.62% per minute

Basically the benefit of the LB CD plate comes not just from the DPS increase to LB itself but also the fact that casting LB resets 1 Spear charge, so by generating 1 extra spear per minute you actually get a far better overall DPS increase in the long run VS Detonate.

On the point allocation
To be blunt, the points between the breakpoints of CB and LB and max level are fairly negligible, CB amounts to a total of 101.25% per cast from 16 to 18 while CL is even worst at 35.1% per cast from 16 to 17.

The flipside is that the utility from Dive Kick is... situational - you would mainly use it to initiate the "descent" phase early after jumping for a stomp or aerial evading so that you can quickly resume DPS. It arguably also provides a little bit of mobility as jumping > Dive Kick moves you a bit more than running (like one step only....). You can actually more or less get rid of the point in Dive Kick if you want.

Mind Conquer's utility lies in being able to go longer without MP healing which is only really seen in long nests where you run without healing. I've seen a very visible difference between 0 Mind Conquer and 4 Mind Conquer with regards to my MP levels in RuDN but I'm not sure about 3 > 4. The utility you are looking at is 1500 MP per minute.

HJ is where I might differ, in my personal build I pulled the point from Dive Kick to HJ. Here is why:
To make up for a single HJ cast (from lv 2 to 3), you need to cast Chain Lightning 112 times (The difference between HJ 2 and 3 is 4k%, the difference between CL 16 and 17 is 35.1%, 4000/35.1 = 112 casts) This means to make up the difference for a single cast of HJ at any point you need to use Chain Lightning on cooldown for 22 minutes straight. Given Chain Lightning's near-bottom position on the priority, you are more or less looking at a much longer time just to make up for 1 HJ cast.

I personally use HJ at least once, most of the time twice in RuDN to cheese mechanics (S1 fire breath, S3 half-duration confuse pie etc.) Given this, you actually require more time than what RuDN gives you just for CL to make up what you lost from going from HJ 3 to HJ 2 (RuDN is 40 minutes long max).

HJ vs Charge Bolt 18 could be debatable. You will need to leave it at 1 if you don't deduct from MP regen. The difference is now 6k% from HJ3 to HJ1. To make up for this, you need to cast CB18 approximately 6000/101.25% = ~60 times per cast of HJ. Which amount to 10 minutes of casting Charge Bolt on cooldown. Charge Bolt is a high priority skill so arguably if you only cast HJ once or twice to cheese mechs you can make up the difference from going HJ3 to HJ1 via CB16 tti CB18 in a single RuDN run if you are able to cast Charge Bolt at full hits on cooldown.

The point I want to illustrate is that the damage increase from 16 to 18 Charge Bolt and 16 to 17 Chain Lightning is negligible, so for those points you can either max those skills, or opt for more utility (Which are very situational), or boosting HJ damage. This ultimately boils down to personal preference so feel free to customize your build.

**Jovion** · 10-21-2017, 08:46 PM

So I finally went down to do some coefficients testing for Charge Bolt Link since I saw a different value calculated from Wolf.

Originally I calculated a figure of ~3k% at max hits because I had assumed each individual bolt had a 0.75 coefficient or the original 0.5 coefficient per bolt multiplied by 1.5 (the 50% from the CM III)

Turns out, Charge Bolt Link is more OP than expected.

I went down to BTG with a broken Berlin weapon and removing all sources of multipliers to figure out once and for all what is the actual coefficient of the Link skill.

Here are my testing stats: Light attack and FD are at 0%

Step 1: Calibration of Damage Reduction from Golem's Defence

Summarily, even the BTG golem has some defense value to him. I used an easy calibration of Half-turn kick which is 50% attack power:

Expected Damage: 45760 * 0.5 = 22880
Actual Damage: 18855

18855/22880 * 100 = ~82.4%

Basically, because of the defense of the golem, the actual damage will be 82.4% of the expected damage for any attack (or to put it another way, the defense of the golem reduces the actual damage by ~17.6%)

Note the ~, the actual value is rounded off, so the calculations moving forward will have some minor rounding errors but should not change the overall result because it takes a VERY big difference for there to be a difference in coefficients (+/- 300 damage or so in a damage value of 100k is not significant enough to say that it is not a certain coefficient. When comparing the possible values of 0.5, 0.75, 1 and 1.5, accordingly you have to see something on the order of around 25k-50k difference in expected vs actual for there to actually be a different coefficient at play.)

Step 2: Measuring Charge Bolt

The damage of a single Charge Bolt hit is 88765 as seen here:

Considering that the actual damage is ~82.4% of the 'real' value due to the golem's defense, we can determine the 'real' value of a single hit of Charge Bolt to be:

"Real" Damage of Charge Bolt Unaffected by Defence: 88765/82.4 * 100 = 107713.774 DMG

Step 3: Checking the 'real' damage against various expected values that differ by Coefficient.

My Charge Bolt is level 16, so it's board damage is 157%. Recall from my testing stats that my attack power is 45760 and I have removed all sources of Light attack and FD so they are at 0%

Firstly, I checked the expected value of a non-Link Charge Bolt hit (only 0.5 coefficient per hit) to see if there is a bug:

IF Charge Bolt Link was only 0.5 Coefficient per hit: 45760 * 1.57 * 0.5 = 35921.6 DMG

So no, there is nothing bugged about our CM III, phew.

Next, I checked my original calculation of Charge Bolt Link having the original 0.5 coefficient + the 50% boost from the CM III.

IF Charge Bolt Link was only 0.5 Coefficient per hit boosted by 50% from CM III: 45760 * 1.57 * 0.5 * 1.5 = 53882.4 DMG

Still VERY far off from the 'real' damage I calculated above. It is even below the actual damage of Charge Bolt affected by Defense. So I admit, my calculation was wrong.

Now there is one more possibility, each Charge Bolt Link hit does 1 coefficient + the 50% boost from the CM III

IF Charge Bolt Link was 1 coefficient per hit boosted by 50% from CM III: 45760 * 1.57 * 1 * 1.5 = 107764.8 DMG (Lines up with "real" damage calculated above)

While not exact, you can roughly attribute it to rounding errors and such. The damage calculated here lines up with my above calculated result derived from the test.

Conclusion

This means each Charge Bolt Link hit has a coefficient of 1.5. It can hit 27 times maximum on Golem.

Maximum possible Coefficient of Charge Bolt: 27 * 1.5 = 40.5

Total Board Damage of Charge Bolt Link: 40.5 * 157 = 6358.5%

Yes, a single cast of Charge Bolt Link is as powerful as Enhanced Holy Burst. We have an OP CM III.

**Jovion** · 11-07-2017, 08:17 PM

So I want to share this, not because of a celebratory "Inqui is high lolololol" but to show that there is some issues with how the devs balance the classes.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...t?usp=drivesdk

The above is a translated note from the developers that pulled a few things, popularity ranking from CDN (irrelevant) AND DPS rankings adjusted by attack power range, by total ranking, and ranked by average (which includes lower-skilled parses).

The problem is in this line:

Target Content: Level 95 nests, excluding 8-man content
I checked the data personally and 8-man dragon nests are missing. It is too late to redo the study, but I do not think there is much of a difference.

Issue is this: 8 man data DOES make a difference. In 8 man nests, the number of buffs/debuffs each class has matters less as it is likely you will have everything. On top of that, personal survivability is less of an issue in 8 man in the sense that you are likely to have 2-3 healers who will keep you topped up, and maybe a tank to draw the boss' attention allowing you to DPS freely.

When you see classes like Inquisitor and Crusader high up in the 4 man rankings, I suspect it is less due to how 'innately powerful' we are but more due to the fact that we have a great deal of survivability which allows us to DPS freely in some situations which would normally kill other classes.

For other classes like Black Mara, they are lower likely because they cannot deal with "boss attention" as easily as others, but when allowed to DPS freely in 8 man raids, they become one of the most OP classes currently.

As such, I am calling attention to this because as raiders would know, Inquisitors are in a decent position but the power creep of balancing and spin-off classes are slowly leaving us behind. Crusaders are known to badly need buffs in 8 man content but have yet to receive any major attention. There are other suspect positions and rankings which is likely to lead to some classes receiving unnecessary buffs and other classes not receiving needed boosts.

So long as 8 man data is not factored in, these problems are unlikely to be rectified. If people can push the devs to at the very least collect 8 man data and look at them separately from the 4 man data before planning class balancing, I feel the devs would have a fuller picture and perhaps balance the game better.

Note I am not asking for the devs to solely balance the game off 8 man content, but given how different the conditions are from 4 man, it needs to be considered separately and factored in when performing class balancing.

Quick Edit: Another problem with the data is that it uses Level 95 contents, thing is currently as it stands Inquisitors and Crusaders enjoy innate crit % advantages as we have a higher AGI to crit conversion ratio.

While this can help "balance" out the DPS in the current 95 content, the issue is that at some point all characters will hit the stat caps especially high-end raiding characters. When that happens, the minor things like innate class buffs, board damages begins to matter more. And in cutting edge content we will begin to fall behind.

If the developers truly want to balance us like this, it must hold that even at the highest gear level no other classes can achieve the same stat levels in terms of stuff like crit % etc. like Inquisitors and Crusaders. However, I doubt this will happen, so it will then go back to how much % board damage our skills have.

**Adhelaida** · 11-09-2017, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by Jovion View Post

-shortened

Conclusion

This means each Charge Bolt Link hit has a coefficient of 1.5. It can hit 27 times maximum on Golem.

Maximum possible Coefficient of Charge Bolt: 27 * 1.5 = 40.5

Total Board Damage of Charge Bolt Link: 0.5 * 157 = 6358.5% Shouldnt be here 40.5 instead 0.5?

Yes, a single cast of Charge Bolt Link is as powerful as Enhanced Holy Burst. We have an OP CM III.

Check pink text above^
Way interesting test, i actually enjoyed reading it, when i went to Wolflover's Test i realized its the same but yours is broken down xD.
So Charge Bolt Link is even more powerful than EHB, just one question, how do you know the dmg its not bug? How much should've be the dmg you got above to conclude its bugged?

Changing topic, im agree that they definitely should consider 8-man content and maybe only base DPS rankings on that content if they really want to class balance well, i dont know what makes me feel the saddest, the fact that Ruina is at last position on every single rank or the fact that it doesnt surprises me (Ruina player)

(Anyways, weak characters are weak regardless of how we classify them.) <- I didnt get this, can you tell?

**Khlight** · 12-05-2017, 03:09 AM

Bump.
I want to know what will be the best skills to be plated after the boost for Priest (I believe the boost will be in this December Patch).
I am currently using 5 Skill Plates;

Holy Burst (Damage)
Consecration (Cooldown)
Mind Breaker (Cooldown)
Charged Bolt (Damage)
Lightning Bolt (Cooldown)

I am thinking about plating Grand Cross (Damage) when the boost comes. I am in a dilemma now whether I will remove 1 enhancement plate and will be using 6 Skill Plates or replace 1 of my old skill plates.

Thank You!

**TashaGodspell** · 12-16-2017, 03:20 AM

hi re equipping my inqui using neris stuff how do you max crit on this ? or do i need a medea to do so ? btw 3rd stat for heraldry and talisman should be crit right since i dont have legendary

also all of my 95 jade is int + vit hp and int + light + hp so i can survive is this good?

**Jovion** · 12-20-2017, 05:52 AM

So with the release of the official English translations of the DPS ranking and the very obvious ranking of Inquis around top 5 (the actual DPS rankings, not the first, big popularity list), I'll make a few comments.

Inquis is actually in a fairly decent spot. It is not the best, but it is also by no means bad. What limits Inquis is the skill ceiling/prediction required to play the class to its full potential. Here are a couple of my recent parses which show what an Inquis can really be capable of:

Pre-Calypse, Early 95 Cap (With Rune L): 197 m

Post-Calypse: 232m

The other problem is the phrase "not the best". We are unfortunately outclassed by several balance offenders. Namely Black Mara and Ray Mechanic.

It is pretty annoying to be decked in full Calypse only to do about 10m more than the Black Mara in my party with Rune L. That speaks volumes about the imbalance (willing to bet if the BM was in full Calypse as well she would do ~300m end DPS and trash me hard).

So as you can tell, the exclusion of 8 man data is (as I mentioned earlier) flawed in terms of game balancing. Nonetheless, I do see the sentiment that Inquis is doing poorly. I hope my parses can encourage any Inquis players to continue playing and realize that it is not actually doing too badly. It is a matter of practice and training your ability to play the class that can decide between whether you are just "average" or are doing good. An average Inquis is pretty bad IMO. A good one can give some of the higher-end classes a run for their money.

Of course, if you want to do the top-top DPS. Go Ray Mechanic/Black Mara. Seriously. And Black Mara is getting boosted further. What the hell devs. This is pretty much why I've scaled back my time in DN.

Attached Files

**Esncialcsr** · 12-21-2017, 03:56 AM

Its a very informative post.However i would like to ask a question. I dont hv much gold and unable to stack FD. does it means i still have to use ultimate? BTW recently i got an ultimate 2nd stat crit lvl 95 from lagendia exploration. Should i equip or sell it since its a bit difficult for me to even max the crit cap. thank you :3

**TashaGodspell** · 12-29-2017, 10:46 PM

btw once the conversion of neris to medea is here is it better to use int agi medea then jade with int + vit or medea with int + vit then int + high crit jade ? what do you think

**Jovion** · 01-10-2018, 05:50 AM

I was pretty worried about the Inqui "changes" in case it was a nerf.

Well, it was a buff.

This testing is primarily to test the multipliers applied to the skills, so I only ensured my damage range's min damage - max damage was the same (using broken weapons). I also cut as much of my gear as I can to make it easier to compute the numbers.

The Normal versions were tested by simply throwing them at the boss. The Enhanced versions were tested by activating Consec far away from the golem and running out, using the split second that the enhanced skill "lingers" outside of Consec before casting it in order to eliminate the extra light attack buff from Consec. I then took the damage numbers as they appeared.

Results:

Normal GC:

GCv2:

Normal HB:

Enhanced HB:

Okay, time for the math:

GC Multiplier:
3,990,988/1,596,432 = 2.499942371488419. I assume there might be rounding errors within the game code or something (maybe 3990988 being actually 3990989.4 etc) so for the sake of ease of use I'm just going to call it a 2.5x multiplier under Consec.

HB increase:
3,240,125/1,080,045 = 2.999990741126527. Again, assume rounding errors, so I'm just going to call it a 3x multiplier

Hence, the theoretical board of the enhanced skills are:

Enhanced GC: 3033% * 2.5 = 7582.5%

Enhanced HB: 2052 * 3 = 6156%

So GC went from 5k% to 7.6k% while HBN remains at 6.2k%. Collectively, the changes were a buff to the enhanced skills.

In addition, Normal GC and HB are now serviceable as damage skills, rather than being the complete joke they were last time. So if you ever get down to that part of the rotation it actually hurts rather than tickles the boss.

Overall not too bad a buff. It is a straight damage boost so there is not much in terms of gameplay changes. The only major difference is you probably want to change that HB plate for a GC plate and also swap GC and HB's positions in your rotation.

On another note, as I've previously mentioned I have scaled back my time in DN. Summary is I don't think I'm likely to raid in 95 cap content, not having to spend or invest excessive time into the game in order to keep up with costumes, heraldries, talismans and other gear has actually been fairly liberating in real life, having more time to do my own stuff and having more money in general for spending on non-DN games and actual real life stuff.

This guide will continue to be updated as it doesn't take much time to log in, do a few math tests and figure out stuff. However, I might not be able to comment on the practicality of future revamps or our DPS ranking or other nonsense as I'm no longer going to go out of my way to remain relevant. Already my talismans and heraldries have fallen behind as they are largely stuck at Level 93 rather than being upgraded to 95.

Attached Files