PvP Wishlist.

[Kuru]

So, some new PvP update notes have been released and reading through them has been quite painful to be honest. So I figured if they're unsure of what people want in PvP then, why don't we let them know?

(disclaimer: This is going to be MY PvP wishlist, your wishlist for PvP doesn't have to have any similarities to mine, nor does it even need to be in the same ballpark.)


Overall


- Remove dash for each class besides warrior... DN is essentially glorified tag 90% of the time.

- Reduce Tumble iFrame to 0.3 seconds once more

- [Concept] Introduce a new timer for CTC skills (RA, NTL, Icy Shards etc etc)

- 1st cast = 100% damage
- 2nd cast = 75% damage
- 3rd cast = 50% damage

- Remove CTC stacks lasting between rounds. Change it so all CTCs reset to 0 at the start of each new round



Warrior:


Gladiator:

- increase Front Shove CD to 23 seconds once again

- Increase Triple slash CD

- Remove the short cast line drive

- Return brave shout SA Break debuff

- Increase triple slash AS

- Reduce the damage of Front Shove Awakened cast (let's be real, 24k is obscene for a 11sec CD skill)



Moonlord:

- Reduce Cyclone Slash suction strength

- Reduce Crescent Cleave's damage

- Increase Cyclone Slash CD

- Decrease Eclipse awakened SA break


Destroyer:

- Remove Rolling attack CTC (or at least reduce it to 2x CTC)

- Flying Swing SA 1200 once again

- Reduce Rolling Attack Damage

- Reduce Rolling Attack Bubble cost

- Reduce Crisis howl CD (Why is Merc's still 1 minute but some classes have like... 30 seconds base for their counter????)


Barbarian:

- Reduce Whirlwind damage by a decent margin

- Flying Swing SA 1200 once again

- Increase board damage on other skills

- Reduce Crisis howl CD


Dark Avenger:

- Increase overall damage values

- Increase SA break on their dash combo




Cleric


Guardian:

- Increase divine combo damage

- Return guardian force SA


Crusader:

- Drastically increase Goddess Relic damage

- Increase Smite damage

- let's be real, increase most damage tbh... it's so weak right now


Inquisitor:

- Chain lightning electrocution chance up (20% -> 60%/70%)

- Avenging wave damage reduced

- Return mind breaker stun

- Increase mind breaker SA break (400)


Saint:

- Holy Burst damage reduced

- Shock of Relic damage reduced

- Return mind breaker stun

- Increase mind breaker SA break (400)

- Increase Healing relic heals



Sorceress


Saleana:

- Remove lava effect of meteor

- Reduce explosion damage of Flame burst (20k x 3 is a joke lol)

- Reduce SA break of Flame Burst

- Remove slow effect from Firewall awaken

- Reduce damage of Firewall awaken


Elestra:

- Greatly reduce Ice Cyclone duration

- Remove CTC of Ice Sphere

- Reduce CTC of Icy shards to 2x

- Reduce duration of Glacial Field


Majesty:

- Reduce Gravity Ascension duration when leaving it to free cast (i.e. tumbling out of it)

- Increase Gravity ball CD

- Reduce Gravity ball explosions to 2

- Remove Switch Gravity instant cast after teleport


Smasher:

- Increase Beyond time Awakened CD to 120 seconds

- Reduce Nine Tail Laser CTC to 2

- Increase Nine Tail Laser damage

- Increase Spectrum shower EX damage

- Remove the darn auto cast after the skill gets broken


Black Mara:

- Reduce damage of Haze

- Reduce duration of Entomb

- Remove CD recovery of Forgotten Wraith

- Make Wraith Form require a standing hit-state to cast

- Reduce Black Strike suction



Archer


Windwalker:

- Increase Rising Storm current usage (75)

- Reduce Eagle Dive Damage

- Increase Circle Shot iFrame duration

- Increase Cancel Circle Shot iFrame duration

- Increase SA break on Pin Wheel


Tempest:

- Increase Hurricane Dance Current usage (40-50)

- Increase Circle Shot iFrame duration

- Increase Cancel Circle Shot iFrame duration

- Short iFrame on Kick Shot EX

- Increase SA break on Pin Wheel


Artillery:

- Return the scope arrow 360 mechanic

- Decrease magic arrow damage

- Reduce Extension Core damage

- Make fatal cannonade easier to achieve but deal less damage


Sniper:

- Scope arrow 360 mechanic

- Return Rapid Shot stagger



Academic


Adept:

- Reduce iFrame on Magma Jump

- Reduce Magma Jump SA break

- Camera lock Ice Beam

- Remove Magma Jump CTC stacking

- Reduce active frames of Stun grenade


Gear Master:

- Stop ducks from being able to keep people on permanent silence loops (i.e. have all duck silence run off of 1 shared CD)

- Increase CD of Summon quackam

- Decrease Biochemical Missile active frames

- Decrease SA of Ice Pump in Mechanic Mode

- Reduce active frames of Stun grenade


Shooting Star:

- Decrease active frames of Biochemical Missile

- Reduce active frames of Stun grenade



Kali


Blade Dancer:

- Reduce SA of Ecstatic Dance

- Reduce Damage boost given by Ecstatic Dance

- Reduce Damage of Elegant Storm

- Reduce Damage of Hurricane Gust

- Increase CD of Dusk Hunter


Spirit Dancer:

- Reduce SA of Ecstatic Dance

- Reduce Damage boost given by Ecstatic Dance

- Remove Dusk Hunter CTC

- Decrease Sufi Dancer awaken hit increase to 50%

- Decrease General Dawnblade damage

- Decrease Praetor damage


Soul Eater:

- Reduce Curse damage

- Reduce Spirit Paper damage


Dark Summoner:

- Reduce Chaos Formation Damage



Assassin


Ripper:

- Blade Runner SA break reduction

- CD increased of Blade Runner

- CD increased of Shift Blow

- Damage reduced of Shadow Hand

- Damage reduced of Izuna Drop


Raven:

- Blade Runner SA break reduction

- CD increased of Blade Runner

- CD increased of Shift Blow

- Rain Drop damage decreased


Light Fury:

- Line of Darkness damage reduced

- Chakra Grip multiple hits glitch fixed

- CD on Quantum Trance

- Illusion strike minor damage reduction


Abyss Walker:

- Line of Darkness damage reduced

- Line of Darkness CTC removed

- Illusion strike damage reduced

- Abyss Claw damage reduced



Lencea


Flurry:

- Lower the proc rate of Vulnerable

- Lower Spinning Skewer (vulnerable) damage

- Reduce damage of Spinning Swing

- Increase SA of Spinning Cut

- Add animation lag between headbutt and push kick so they can't move faster than dash...

- Return the "fatigued" state of erratic power


Sting Breezer:

- Increase SA of Spinning Cut

- Add animation lag between headbutt and push kick so they can't move faster than dash...

- Dent Blow damage reduction



Machina


Runia:

- Damage transfer mechanic removed

- After damage mechanic is removed, overall damage increased

- Lariat CD increased

- Change gear step CD reduction from ducking maxed from 90 -> 60%


Defensio:


- Damage transfer mechanic removed

- After damage mechanic is removed, overall damage increased

- Lariat CD increased

- Change gear step CD reduction from ducking maxed from 90 -> 60%

- Taunting Blow CD increased

- Repair CD reduction removed.



God that took forever, this isn't a perfect list nor is it something that'll fix pvp. It was made with 1v1 balancing in mind and will need a LOT of work shopping to fit into any kind of group pvp. This is just my personal list of what I'd like to see changed in PvP and isn't something that should be taken as gospel, people will of course disagree and have other opinions on what classes deserve what, but this is what I think needs to be changed.

This list of mine will be subject to change as time goes on of course


Feel free to include your own wishlist for PvP, we have ED quite intently paying attention to DN SEA as a whole at the moment, let's use this chance to improve PvP for the best!

[KillianQ]

most people be like:

Machina
-Remove
-from PVP
-Please T__T

[Lia]

My Wish :

- Reset DN
- to
- 60 cap

[Kuru]

I share that wish as well Q_Q

[BlessedSign]

- Dash should consume more MP so that people use it wisely. (Removal is fine too except for warriors)
- Make healing relic meaningful again, able to heal 10% of HP is okay i guess.
- Should bring back electrocution rate to 100%, if not elemental lord burn and freeze rate should also be 20%.
- Buff up crusaders damage, at the moment the damage is awfully bad, it only does damage ranging 5-12k aside from electric smite.
- I think that invincibility/i-frame should only be given to Divine Avatar and Hurricane Dance (with the nerf on the CTC of course).

Hopefully PD have a look on people thoughts regarding PvP, the class favoritism is awfully bad right now.

[Kuru]

Well, one thing I'm looking at is with the upcoming instant removal, how will classes play out? Windwalker and Saleana will rise in the ranks I feel (especially windwalker) for having seemingly instant skills still while everyone else loses theirs :<

But yea, i agree with all of those to be honest aha.

[Remilia]

For Lancy's and my perspective:

-Headbutt and push kick already much slower than dash unless you are willing to sacrifice 2 heraldry plate for ASPD. I would suggest shorten the move skill range instead, compensate with proper ASPD but still move slower than dash.

-Dent blow reduced damage seems fine but make the after image last for at least 5 sec... same goes with hovering blade.

-Give spear hand launch toggle with right click.

-Make shutter bounce multiple click like triple slash so it cancel after 1st hit.

-Make at least hornet touch not buggy like parry, don't even need to tweak the low damage output or low SAB.

-Lower vulnerable skewer damage but at least give 0.3 sec iframe during leap back.

-Fatigue back also ok, but then the generation of energy need to be in other way such as acrobat's air current.

-no need to increase spinning cut SA, increase the SAB instead.

[Couplord]

Actually with speed buffs, Headbutt High Kick is faster than the dash of other classes. The skill should be slowed down by a good amount.

[Remilia]

Thanks Kuru, I just write because Im bored lol

It is faster than dash because of ASPD plate. I would point out the range rather than speed that need to be nerf, such as make the range equivalent to halfturn / holykick.

[Kuru]

The end result is the same anyway haha, it shouldn't be faster than dash and that's something we can all agree on I think~

[Vhanzy]

I'll address moonlord only since its the only class I'm using now every time I play.

-I think its better if cyclone slash aoe gets the nerf instead of the suction strength I don't really see any difference from the Ex version aside that it has a faster tick
thus making it only a handful of class can escape it. and oh yeah agreed on the cd nerf.

-Agreed on crescent cleave damage nerf with how the current moonlord's utility prowess is it's really OP and it makes moonblade dance redundant .

-Rather than nerfing eclipse SAB just revert its hit state back from normal eclipse or just change it to heavy stagger since making it ml's version
of evasion slash is already a big help.

--------

To summarize what I want for dn pvp scene

-make the pilot skill compensate for the class weaknesses they're playing not the other way around.

-refine/polish the aoe/aoe height (skill hitting more than their animation suggest) and the mechanics of the skills.

-needs more camera lock limitation on skills

-stop casualizing dn too much it's losing its charm.

-make dn be potato rig friendly again Lol!

I'll add some more if there are more things that needs to be address when it pops into my head

[Couplord]

Remove awakening and dash.

[Icyruios]

Having a delay between push kick and headbutt is not viable at all. We don't spend 2 heraldry just to make it unusable.

The problem is that headbutt+push kick is too fast UNDER SPEED BUFFS. So the viable option is to nerf the attack speed boost on the speed buffs, and not to make 2 skills unusable at all.

If flurry or sting breezer is still too fast without speed buffs, then it just means that you are playing too slow.

Spinning cut SAB needs to be better, not the sa. Poke damage definitely needs a reduction, although it would only be fair to make all other skills to deal more damage to compensate for the loss in dmg from poke.

[Kuru]

Having a delay between push kick and headbutt is not viable at all. We don't spend 2 heraldry just to make it unusable.

The problem is that headbutt+push kick is too fast UNDER SPEED BUFFS. So the viable option is to nerf the attack speed boost on the speed buffs, and not to make 2 skills unusable at all.

If flurry or sting breezer is still too fast without speed buffs, then it just means that you are playing too slow.

Spinning cut SAB needs to be better, not the sa. Poke damage definitely needs a reduction, although it would only be fair to make all other skills to deal more damage to compensate for the loss in dmg from poke.

The thing with flurry is that even without poking it has immense damage. Spinning cut hitting up to 25k with the red cast, spinning swing deals obscene amounts of damage for a skill that resets to 1200 SA with every click and can deal a fairly sizable chunk of HP. Even without poking on rotation, a flurry is still one of the few classes with high utility and even higher damage.

[Icyruios]

The thing with flurry is that even without poking it has immense damage. Spinning cut hitting up to 25k with the red cast, spinning swing deals obscene amounts of damage for a skill that resets to 1200 SA with every click and can deal a fairly sizable chunk of HP. Even without poking on rotation, a flurry is still one of the few classes with high utility and even higher damage.

If we look at it from a softban perspective, poke is the only good way to deal damage. In softban, there is no way your opponent is going to stand there and let u cast red swing because without speed buffs it takes too long to charge. The only other painful skill is lollipop. I don't rmb red swing hitting that much tbh I tried on a dummy and poke does more damage (ok tried and tested it does 14k not 25k)

In kof however it is a totally different story but even so red swing cannot be used as a consistent damage dealing skill because when people see it people will try to run from it. Flurry 50 is also one of the weakest damage dealing 50 skill. Then we have the 32 which deals huge damage just like all other 32. The only problem with flurry is the poke which needs to be nerf for sure. I'm not saying that flurry damage is bad. But a high lvl stab screw for instance do pathetic damage. Sting breezer side skills do little damage. Just look at 4k per mls (5k after de buff) on a glad every 9 sec and you know what I mean. Mls does almost the same or maybe slightly lesser than poke every 9 sec and they don't even need to be vulnerable


Coming from a flurry player, I feel that
1) Flurry is too fast with speed buffs. Unless you are a fast class like bd/acro/glad/ripper, it is hard to follow. The solution is to nerf speed buffs, and not nerf headbutt+push kick

2) Main damage comes from poke. Only way you will get hit by red swing is when you waste your evades and of you do you deserve to get rekt by it.
Solution is to nerf poke, but at least make other skills such as stab screw useful. Look at 11 cd front shove vs 22 cd stab screw. That way flurry can still do good damage. Furthermore, poke sa is super low and easily cancelled. Instead of making flurry a poke dependent class why not make it an all rounder 1v1 class(since aoe is a joke)


3) Hornet touch is a joke. The most buggy of all the 'parry'. At least flurry awakening might change that soon.

At this moment flurry is too strong in my opinion but don't make it like what it was before the buffs.

[Spamurai]

I actually think that glad's CDs are too small for their actual SAB and speed. Better if triple slash would be 15sec cd and front shove 20+. This skill is incredible in terms of SAB, recatching and deserves a nerf even if tripleslash is not
It is actually the current problem in pvp. Many classes should get some nerfs in CDs, DMG, SA/SAB

[Spamurai]

On the post:
TS. I think you did mistakes in your list in some points. I'll try to comment on them and suggest a better solution

Overall:
- DMG stat nerf for almost every class ingame
//Game isn't more intresting when everyone can nuke everyone in 1 "combo"


Majesty:

- Reduce Gravity Ascension duration when leaving it to free cast (i.e. tumbling out of it)

- Remove Switch Gravity instant cast after teleport

- Increase SA of Gravity ball EX to 600

- Decrease Switch Gravity EX's DMG
//Maj's weakest part was her 0 SA. You literally can't tank cleric's kick with half of skills. GBEX's change should allow her more exchange-blows aggressive playstyle


Smasher:

- Increase Beyond time Awakened CD to 120 seconds

- Reduce Nine Tail Laser CTC to 2

- Remove the darn auto cast after the skill gets broken

- Increase laser cutter damage
//By far THE MOST fun and satisfying part of smasher is to catch opponent in poison missiles and ride them on LC. Her gameplay needs to be catch-and-kill-with laser adventures

Black Mara:

- Reduce damage of Haze AND reduce it's CD to 15sec(18sec being her only good lift-recatch skill LOL)

- Remove Entomb's SAB to 0. Change it's flinching to LI.

- Remove CD recovery of Forgotten Wraith

- Reduce both duration(to 1sec) and CD(to 45sec) of Wraith Form // It is her form of additional save. let's be real, Sorc has WORST AE ingame. I can catch sorc after AE almost every time if she doesn't cast SA skills

- Reduce Black Strike suction //But initial 1st hit AOE is really small and CD is long. Maybe dmg reduce?
// I like current BM's agressive playstyle w/out entomb and she is not too powerful like this, so I think she just needs some dmg reductions and removal of the way, by which most of them tries to catch into combo(Entomb's flinch)


Spirit Dancer:

- Reduce SA of Ecstatic Dance

- Reduce Damage boost given by Ecstatic Dance

- Remove Dusk Hunter CTC

- Decrease Sufi Dancer awaken hit increase to 50%

- Decrease General Dawnblade damage

- remove Praetor's auto-cast ability

- Remove awakening skills's auto-cast ability


Dark Summoner:

- Reduce additional hit SAB of Phantom and Chain claw EX(Ranged 800-2400 SAB, really, ED?)

- Reduce speed of Chain claw cast by 20-30%. (If you get in the range of THIS and can't retreat immidiately then you wasted AE for sure)

- Reduce Chaos's formation damage by 50% if kali leaves it to cast by itself
// In couple with recent kali changes DS became too powerful in terms of ranged SAB and escape ability. She can easily kite and punish almost every melee class

Ripper:

- Blade Runner CD increase(It only has 600 non-instant SAB, it breaks a lot if opponent knows you going to cast it)

- CD increased of Shift Blow(NO. This skill is the only dependable way to catch someone for ripper and it can be dodged/breaked because it is always the initiation skill of ripper and you always know that he will cast it on CD. Also you can't even get CD plate for it)

- REMOVE

- CLONES
//Ripper's greatest weakness is still that every his INCREDIBLE FAST MUCH SAB skill can be kited pretty easily. Even with increased CD gladi is more dangerous because of his instant 400+ SAB on TripleS and Front Shove. Clones make his damage very high so the main problem is them, not his CD's or SAB or speed. Remember 70-80 caps? Ripper had low CDs and even then wasn't that powerful. You just need to play more with them. Both chasers are very predictable because of lack of initiation-lifts. Remember that fast and versatile gameplay is feature of sin's

Raven:

- CD increased of Blade Runner(They use it for combo only, why?)

- CD increased of Shift Blow(No lol, it doesn't even lift for raven, why?)

- Rain Drop damage decreased

- Return old Open Edge EX
//No comments here. Every raven would for sure give up some damage for old Open Edge EX

Machina


Runia:

- Increase overboost CD to 120sec

- Move DMG trans to 45 passive so only Ruina has access to it

- Lower additional SA from Class mastery or remove it

- DMG trans happens only for Ruina-branch skills

- Lower Lariat SA, but slightly increase cast speed(<=20%)
//Why are everyone MAD at their DMG trans? It's FEATURE, it's the reason why this class are intresting to play AND it is a way to easy counter their only save

Defensio:

- Increase overboost CD to 120sec

- Damage transfer mechanic removed

- After damage mechanic is removed, overall defensio EX-branch damage increased

- Lower Lariat SA, but slightly increase cast speed(<=20%)

- Lower additional SA from Class mastery or remove it

- Taunting Blow CD increased to 30sec. Mark auto-explode removed

- Repair CD reduction AND CD skill plate removed.
//Defensio is not ruina and designed to be skills-oriented and while being more tanky, should not have 1 more save

[Kuru]

okay gonna just reply on a few topics.

Machina:

Damage transfer - The reason people get annoyed/fed up with damage transfer on Machina is a few reasons, one of which is that it allows her to do an auto attack combo for 40k + off of one skill, the other is how simple it is to initiate. Damage transfer should be nerfed heavily due to it ludicrous amounts of damage that it can give (beat down, taunting blow, follow through, overheat etc etc) for how simple it can be cast. There is no "risk and reward" for how damage transfer works but only really "reward" in their casting. Even if the mechanic isn't removed, it needs to be toned back GREATLY for Machina to ever be within earshot of "balanced"


Rippers:

Shift blow - Rippers have a myriad of catching skills and recatching skills that all work and be cast almost instantly. Shadow hand is instant SA break and leaves enemies in a nice stagger, excess chain to abuse any low SA skill, blade runner which is 600 SAb instantly etc etc. Rippers are currently top tier and even if you touch their damage, they'll still be top tier due to their utility. As I've stated before, even if Barbarian (for example) can one shot a ripper, that damage is useless if a Ripper can safely cancel it every time. Damage is useless without utility but utility is useful regardless of damage.


Majesty:

Gravity Ball EX - I dare say, if you were to buff gravity ball SA then they'd need an extreme nerf in other places. Currently one of the highest damaging classes in the game, with the ability to lock loop people for, quite frankly, insane amounts of time and able to just decimate enemy SA with multiple skills. Giving more SA to gravity ball will just make it such a safety skill (even more so than it is right now funnily enough) which requires even less thought in each cast than it already does.


Will write more later, have to leave for now. Thanks for the reply, all insight is appreciated~

[Spamurai]

Ruina's branch skills are generally weaker than defensio's thats why I suggested this solution. Also, I can't remember, that some skill can do 40k+ with dmg trans. Bcs their skills hits only for 6-10k(exceptions are ruina's 50 and leap over) and DMG trans doesn's takes 100% dmg of skill. It actually does ~0.6 of skill dmg per hit and more of that, DMG trans allows you to use amp-ed DMG only for 2 additional hits after the skill if you used defensio skills(i.e.+120% of skill that hits 8-12k) and only for 3 additional hits, if you used ruina-branch skills(~3 hits for 4-5k). Also I mentioned that her dmg trans is a way to easily recatch them. I mean, don't just use your saves brainlessly against them. Wait for them to start doing damage on you by LMB. LMB has NO SA which means easiest AE+aerial RMB counter in the entire DN. Seriously, I catched them like this hundreds of times. Downside of machina is that she CAN'T just nuke you for 30k instantly, she need to use that LMBs which is weak. Use this against them.

For ripper: Again, have you played ripper vs. good opponents? I played and A LOT. And I can say for sure that shift blow is only 1 good combo-initiation skill. Others are just too slow. As I said, again. Blade runner IS NOT istant 600 SAB, it is 200+400. Almost every good player knows how to counter this ability by tumbling after 1st hit if they can or just use their counter-hits. As ripper, myself, I only use that skill to chase someone fleeing. It is very poor initiation tool. I said in the post, remember 80cap rippers, why this "great utility" char was pretty weak? Because one mistake caused your death. Because you were forced to kill most chars for more that 30secs of pure DPS combo, while they can nuke your HP in just 2-4 skills. Ripper's great weakness is kite. You CAN kite them if you can't take them 1 on 1.
As for their "utility", I-frames of chasers have 20sec+ CD and ALL OF THEM tied to skills that you will use to recatch after succesful SB. While acros have 2 i-frames with great mobility and CD <10sec and both of them will be on CD every time you need to flee.
And more of that. I can just name you the attack-initiation pattern of 90% rippers is colo: shuriken-applause/shiftblow-shiftblow/applause-Access chain. Literally, every ripper uses this because they have NO other initiate options.

Wewjesty: I said that because it will create opportunities for them that can't be done before, so they won't just run and spam as now, but will try new playstyles. It pretty much can be nerfed to smth like good ol' 400 SA, at least it will be able to tank kicks in face

[KillianQ]

i think i finally have a legit suggestion
-Bigger Ladder Arena

this way some skills won't cover a HUGE portion of the stage and would give everyone space to dodge...but not too big cause Snipers/Silver Hunters could have the biggest advantage...just enough space for some huge AOE skills to cover at least only a quarter of the field (or roughly the same AOE or smaller than Umbra)

[Kuru]

I mean, at some point we have to ask though, "Does glacial field just have an oversized AoE"

[Vhanzy]

its big ass aoe isn't the problem though at least for me its the damage tick that makes it so annoying and again the chance of you getting frozen within the field its like other bonus effect the elestra gets isn't enough and don't even get me started with their cyclone sorc as a whole needs a massive overhaul for their learning curve.

[Vhanzy]

another thing that pop in to my head

-ED needs to revert dn pvp back where ultimates are the game changer not just your core skills to avoid one mistake=death.

-make class specialize roles matter again to avoid making classes be good at everything where the deciding factor is the difficult of use, max result with minimal effort is a bad design.

-promote GvG or other Group PvP modes make at least 2 days in a week in a specific hours that makes a better place to level up your guild and get some rewards that will help you in pvp and pve (Bring back occupational war that mode forces people to think and work together why ED isn't promoting this mode is beyond me and more maps for occupational war make it big and stratetigical)

[Lavamonsta]

Windwalker wishlist: Just give us our SA & iframes back TuT

[ArvinALQ]

bring back the battlehowl era that boost high attck power and magic attck