How PvP is MEANT to be played.

[Kuru]

No running, no kiting, no "waiting for cooldowns"... Just a proper 1v1. Hope to see more people PvP like this in the future!

(Video courtesy of FieryMosa)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxSu72mgVsw

(Video keeps screwing up when i use the "Add video" feature so, here's the link... it won't let me remove the video from the add link either :/)

[KillianQ]

Baiting, iFrames, Skill Timing, SAB, long ago all 4 techniques were fully utilized in PVP...but everything changed when the Awakening came xD

[Spamurai]

gladis still can use LD EXi?

[KillianQ]

kidding aside, every class has their pros and cons...running, kiting, waiting for cooldowns are pretty much just a part of their gameplay...for example, a sniper wouldn't stand still and spam skills because if the enemy gets close enough then it's going to be difficult...or you wouldn't go near a Saint surrounded by relics...another example, this time using other games, in Dota 2 an Enigma wouldn't Blink inside a teamfight with his Black Hole on CD...or in LoL, Katarina wouldn't just jump in a teamfight knowing that the team has a lot of disables...the point is that every class has their own playstyle whether it be keeping your distance, waiting for cooldowns to be able to fight, baiting certain skills, running away, healing, etc. it's just how they can survive a 1v1 fight especially if they're at a disadvantage...placing yourself in a disadvantage just because you want to "man up" means you're not playing your class correctly or you're most likely gonna lose...there are pros who know what to do on any situation, utilizing everything the class has including normal attacks, kicks, wall bounce, even the base class skills, technically using the class to its full potential BUT they are called PROS for a reason

TL;DR it's not bad to do those things since every class has its own playstyle...tbh tho PVP is just unfair atm since the release of Awakening...in my case i just accepted it and try to enjoy as much as i can

[KillianQ]

well it's a luxury for everyone, also you said it yourself "if people would become pro tier on their class" problem is being a "pro" takes prolly years of experience in one class and that most players you encounter are probably the "only wants to win" kind of person...like i said Pros are called Pros for a reason...the only solution i can think of for this matter is increasing the mana consumption of Dash in pvp only, not too much but just enough for most people to reconsider DASHING all the time :/

[BlessedSign]

It just need to consume more MP for people to actually use it when needed.

[Mosa]

I don't think the point of my video is "play like a gladiator / flurry", I think my point is my video description. And I'm not happy with this forum's results, apparently all of you don't realize my emphasis is play with some bloody brains, some respect and stop thinking about winning all the time. Yes I too rather win than lose but not like I give too much of a fuck (and I'd be happy to lose to people that outwin my aggressiveness e.g Axire / arigatou / Elusidator / BananaBomo / Propeds / GradZ and afew more), but I don't do it like a cheap fuck standing so far and just giggle almost across the map (and if I were to elaborate giggle I mean laugh gesture according to cancer research, I'm sure you've seen those inbreds).

Also I'd appreciate that you look at the reply I gave Lavamonsta below your post, that's kinda what I'd say to you as well but I'm too lazy to rephrase stuffs from Physicians to Sniper / Warrior / Whatever it is.

[Lavamonsta]

How PVP is MEANT to be played for melee classes with high SA&SAB + multiple AEs*
This playstyle doesn't work for many classes with low SA and 1 AE. Not that I justify kiters, but you gotta be more objective when esp when you're telling other ppl how to PVP :/
For example, try facing off gladi with a physician. Can you use the same standards as gladi vs flurry?

[Mosa]

I want to point out that I do not belong in the category whereby I'm "unfair", I do understand Physicians are no less than garbage heading on Gladiators, I also speak for Snipers that they can't do shit melee-ing (except Kyame but 90 cap onwards I don't know), time to time keeping a distance that's acceptably fine (which is roughly 3m-5m according to DN physics & note I do not make the rules over this, it's MY PERSONAL acceptance). I also want to point out there are also counters for Physicians / Adepts that's quite remarkable like Magma Wall on Gladiator's AE landing and/or Magma Wave 600SA prediction on Counter Exile 400SAb (because fuck airtime physics), but I still strongly agree chances of Physician winning a Gladiator is very low. It's almost the same as comparing Ripper VS Gladiator, but my point of the video is by majority, that people disregard real intentions / processing / strategies / reflex / skills of PvP.

Quoting "But I can't run and wait for that skill to CD because I'm not a chicken", yeah when you start running it means you do not have knowledge / experience / skills, if you get caught, wait for your high SA skills to finish CD and then AE and cast it as protection, gets countered by Front Shove EX? Cast Hypnosis, Gladiator predicted? You have been outwon, simple as that. No excuses, you have done your job using your brain, you have did well, you do not look like "ALL I WANNA DO IS WIN", and proceed to die / lose with some honour, you won't even be called a noob, trust me, the respect is there.

I also want to emphasize that personally I do not fucking care about winning / losing, play with some sportsmanship, get some bloody respect, I can tell you people won't ever think of looking down on you.

[Lavamonsta]

Then I guess it's a matter of self conviction; most 1v1 players play a class to be good at it and win despite being overpowered by the opponent's class. Especially for those who are keen on participating tourneys, of course they would aim to win.

Again, I don't support kiters. I draw a fine line between running because of necessity and running just for the sake of it. I believe you also know that there is a difference between them. Put yourself in a situation where you have 0 AE and your counter skills aren't up, although I guess this rarely happens with classes such as glad, ripper, lancea, defensio (I don't put WW because our evades are easily cancelled and I'm biased, so don't mind me).

I don't know about you, but in my community we respect those who run so long as it's reasonable. If the opponents class already outwon you by design (glad vs. phys, gm vs. saint), then you can either lose honorably or win by running to survive. We don't have to debate over this since in the end we're both only defending our own point of views. I won't tell you that my way is the only right way; you do you. But I hope that after hearing my explanation, we can all respect each other's way of playing (except pure kiters, they deserve none)

[Mosa]

If you know your class is outwon by design don't even fight that class in the first place, but of course I know you're talking bout those unavoidable moments like KOF and such. My way is right for only a few things, which is that I put into consideration of fully utilizing PvP mechanics as proper / much as I can. It's not right for survival, because it comes with risks, obviously (eg iframe miss / bug / cancel fail / cancel not fast enough). But if your community can respect those who run as long as it's reasonable, then I guess I have nothing much to say other than I will do my best to accept your side of PvP style.

BUT ↓
One thing I have never pointed out before, those running away strategies, I find it *absolutely acceptable* in tournaments and such, the reason why is because money is in factor. Honour may be one, it's important for me but when it comes to ladder / money, priorities change. But for a normal sb 1v1 c'mon I'd rather just heck it & use my brain cells, as it's my personal entertainment. Emphasis on personal.

[McDevoune]

Wanna try vs Ripper m8 ? im not kiting, not running, especially waiting for cooldown skills
Just pm my IGN here McDevoune

[Vaddix]

fite me!! D:< , self ban all your skills!!!

[KillianQ]

YOU! i've seen you play and i gotta say...



I'M TOO F*CKING SCARED O_O

[TERCES]

I've seen you once or twice before.... please have mercy.....

[ErickEych]

Can somebody hand a bucket full of cold water? LMFAO.

[McDevoune]

come i give u cold water here LOL

[Teeny]

Every class has their own style of playing. Generalizing that with a gladvsFlurry would be a mistake.
Btw, the video is unavailable.
If you meant to use your head while pvping (skill rotations/cd/sa/sab) every class has a different strategy according to their available skill set.

I've only seen runners in lost temple, you know the ones that legit run from one end of the map to the other. Those are a pain to deal with which i agree.

[Mosa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxSu72mgVsw

Here I am replying to you, quote "every class has a different stategy according to their available skill set", I believe before dash implementation people can still do amazing things, it's because how developers decided "dash will be easier for newbies" everything turned into a catastrophe. And also I'm pretty sure old players would have went their way to find cool combos / very good counters against most classes etc. etc. and please don't let me get on jump dodge, all classes can do it, and Clerics were PROVEN to have the shortest jump, they are the ones jump dodging the most instead. But if you want to talk about keep distance and some other little things, please see the comment I replied to Lavamonsta, no strategy of "running" is required.

[Aimele]

Glad vs Flurry..
Glad the most troublesome opponent for Flurry.. Our skill got cancelled out easily.. For sure cannot go head on instead try the best to attack from behind..

[Mercuial]

I still see some decent strangers online from time to time.

They usually start off with using 50 skills and etc. then eventually end up hardbanning when they realize that I legit do no damage to them 8D

Shout-out to those guys.



Edit~

I can confirm tho. Most people are downright special if they think I'll wait for them to change char after they fail at trying to hardcore kite me

[MakiseAmber]

Ohhh ur that handsome lonely crusader that yearns for affection ))

[Nippie]

Mercu-san i miss you when are you usually on q-q )

[Mercuial]

Oh hey guys.

As for when I'm usually on. Even I don't know lol

[Hao]

dank whats goin on

[KillianQ]

just a few suggestions on how to "balance" pvp
-increase dash mp consumption
-increase ladder map size OR decrease suction of Cyclone Slash (not hating here, i'd rather have the map size increased along with the increased dash mp consumption...most AOE skills take up too much space which makes them quite "undodgeable")
-remove/decrease paralyze stat from STR (let's admit it this is too beneficial for STR classes...i mean a merc can literally kill you without you even doing anything )
-adjust SAB/SA values

[KillianQ]

are they? i thought stagger is simply a stronger version of paralyze...like making your paralyze high enough for the flinch to become stronger...isn't that how it works?

like i said i just "feel" that it is too strong which from my understanding would make sense since they're stacking STR which also increases the Paralyze stat...or does it work differently?

[Kuru]

Can i ask on why you believe mercs have too many staggers, I'm genuinely curious to this point.

Or rather have too much para. Give some examples for it.

[KillianQ]

well i dont have vids of my pvp matches and i rarely have matches with mercs nowadays...but i do remember having a 1v1 match with a Barb and i can barely recover from his skills...i think it was Stomp (not sure of the skill name since im not that familiar with Mercs, i just know what the skills look like lol) and Whirlwind...i even stopped and said "dat paralyze stat" and we both laughed at it...he even replied with "ikr" so it seemed to me that he agreed with what i said and that he does have a high para...but then again im not sure how Paralyze works so if you would kindly explain it that would be great...

btw that was 90-cap where there are still some "friendly" pvpers who'd actually laugh WITH you not AT you

[MakiseAmber]

Hmm i havent been in dn for abt 1 and a half years now and only recently came back so im not rly up to date with the current pvp scene yet and am currently noober than an avg noob :/. But im sharing based on my experience back at 90 cap.

I mainly used arti for ladder, occasionally sniper and barb. All 3 requires different playstyles (running,kiting,baiting,etc) and i find them justifiable.

Unless u see a barb running around the kof map thinking his axe is extendable like his manhood, or a sniper deciding to stab her enemy with an arrow in her hands, thats just plain idiocracy and not playing the class the way its meant to be played.

Then there are specific situations which require u to run, like against an invulnerable cleric. Makes sense to just run until the invulnerable duration wears off right?

Or situations that are just dodgeable. For eg if ur slowed from an eles, ur Iframes actually become longer *hint hint* not sure whether they changed it now.

Or situations that are counterable with precise skill timings. For eg cleric's awakening skill that goes 'HMMMPPP' and he flies to the sky and lands on a certain spot. Thats tumble-able for Bowmasters and if u can master the timing, clerics will always be eating a full combo whenever they execute that skill.

So many different situations, so many different ways of handling it. But with experience it all becomes muscle memory, to the point where just a small action or hearing a certain phrase from ur opponent allows u to predict a couple of seconds ahead and u move instinctively. Thats in 90 cap tho, where pvp is rather balanced. Quite similar to streetfighter, but streetfighter is super fast paced and boils down to single frames, and ur not able to chain combo a person to death easily due to diminishing damage as ur combo increases.

And lastly about dash, i dont see it as a very big threat, since learning how to catch a person constantly dashing away is a very useful skill itself and part of the gameplay now.

[MakiseAmber]

I apologize if that comment has offended you in any way.
But its more equivalent to 'how about you state your points in a more polite and non-sarcastic manner'. Seems like i didn't articulate myself clearly, my bad :/
Anyway, differing opinions, different interpretations. There's no best way to look at a problem, nor is there a single way. ML was fodder, but many people are still annoyed with it and i've simply provided one of the many solutions out there to overcome it, not the best, but it works. So lets refrain from personal attacks and keep the forum as clean as possible shall we?

[Kuru]

Well... I'm not saying you ARE a toxic child but rather that's the kind of line they would use. All the same we can leave it there, my point was more that if you disagree with someone, try to disprove their point instead of instantly dismissing their opinion by degrading it~

But ya, we can leave that conversation there and move on from it!

[MakiseAmber]

Aite! i'll learn from your advice

[Vhanzy]

aside from butthurt people, at least the thread is getting livelier....

[Vaddix]

If you guys really want to see decent and REAL PvP. Go play 1v1 between level 24 Swordmaster, Mercenary or Paladin. No spamming, No AoE, no Ex-skills just pure skills . Oh, I`m an old, outdated and rusted PvP player now so I guess my opinion has no count.

[Vaddix]

I`m a legendary pleb :v :v .

[MakiseAmber]

whats a pleb oWo

[KillianQ]

That nostalgic moment when a Paladin locks you down just by holding left click good old 24 cap