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**Anime Garbage** · 08-06-2017, 11:06 AM

>Glad same tier as Destroyer
>Glad same tier as LK
>Glad same tier as Defensio
>Glad same tier as AW
>Glad same tier as Pyro
>Glad same tier as Elestra

It goes on and on. That first one really bothers me how because in what way with blacklists would a destroyer be able to keep up with a glad at all? They have 1 AE and a mediocre crisis that's more RNG than actual gameplay, and glad has a kit so perfect for that such occasion because of its ludicrous initiating power and ez pz combo consistency.

I can also argue that glad and LK are still diff tiers as well. While LK full awakened has an absurdly high starting level of efficiency, there isn't really anywhere to go from there. The optimal will always be to land a nado and eclipse them after they AE/Recover, and if they somehow aren't relaunched throw MLS. Crescent. With glad, it still starts with an above average level of efficiency but through practice you can learn some absurd setups and practicalities for CD stalling. A mediocre LK is annoying, but a mediocre glad will still fucking kill you if you aren't careful.

Why are any machinas S I would put them at A lol.

To be honest I haven't played the other classes too much since 60/70 cap since around that time I just decided I liked warrior best, but seeing AW over Raven just felt wrong to me.

Sorcs idk, I usually have good matches against them but idk if any notable sorc's still play.

Final point, again, its hard to make a tier list ranking because it will always have a bias because it will be from the perspective of another class. If class A's kit isn't a viable counter to class B's, then to Class A, Class B would look S tier. But what class A doesn't know is that Class C, D, E, F, and G can all counterplay B. But because there's like a million people playing Class A, they'd put Class B as an S tier because of their strength in numbers. Without anything legit like some sort of tourney to garner results everything will be skewed. Outliers and bigwigs that main a certain class and talk too much will have opinions and experience that will make the game different from someone just entering the game, and will skew a tier list with opinions. A tourney would put that sort of thinking and talk to the test because anyone can say "Yo I got 5-0'd by that so its S tier" but seeing first hand the things that kill something, and seeing the various methods you can go about murdering your foes with various others can form discussions that will help conceive a decent list. You can also see people who go "Lol my class is fuckin' S tier get out of my way" get bodied and see the holes in their statements.

Pretty much the only thing we know is this Tier List needs to go from ★, S-F, with ★ being reserved for glad.

Without results this is just going to be a clusterfuck of how many warriors don't like sorceress.

**[GM] DENTITY** · 08-06-2017, 05:56 PM

Same as the other thread. If I see legitimate, helpful discussion forming, I may decide to sticky this. I see this thread as potentially being helpful to new players, but not so much veterans.

**ItsPrimeTime** · 08-06-2017, 06:24 PM

Instead of a tier list, I just listed the classes that were too good for what they are. The list is not based on blacklist or any restrictions to skills and includes awakening. Basically I set two categories of "broken" and "balanced"

My opinion of classes that are balanced or not broken:

Raven
Light Bringer

War Mage

Destroyer
Barbarian
Dark Avenger

Crusader - Sader wishes he was as cool as Guardian this cap

Windwalker
Tempest

Spirit Dancer
Soul Eater

Valkyrie
Dragoon

Physician
Adept - Very high range but balanced by lower damage overall compared to others

My opinion of classes that are either too strong, OR in need of a change:

Abyss Walker - Low risk, very high reward, high survivability, extreme damage burst.
|
Reaper - Very low cooldowns, high super armor break, very high survivability with three escapes
Gladiator - Very low cooldowns, high super armor break, high survivability with three escapes, also comes with a strong parry that can be used even when not hit
|
Lunar Knight - Cyclone disallows some classes from Aerial Evasions. Eclipse being an iframe with high super armor break

Dark Summoner - Low cooldowns allow simplistically easy usage of claw lifts with decent super armor break
Blade Dancer - Traveling iframe skills and invulnerabilities make it hard to hit BD

Shooting Star - Alfredo and summoning Galore
Gear Master - Duck and summoning Galore

Guardian - Very high survivability and foolproof stance of faith which has a follow-up skill that can be used even if not hit

Chaos Mage - Getting caught in an orb/poison combo disallows the use of Aerial Evasions leading to death if power tumbles are unavailable. Gravity Crush EX allows for simplistically easy catches and death for those without power tumbles.

Ice Witch - Frostbite slows too much to allow counterplay and combo drops. CTC charges on Icy Shards. "Ice Consecration" with minimal animation, can't be canceled, covers very large area and inflicts frostbite. Ice Cyclone extremely hazardous with auto targeting, lasts a long time, ease of usage, deadly when paralyzed in.

Pyromancer - Ridiculously fast "eclipse EX" tier Fire Wall awakened instant. Incredibly high range on skills. High damage.

Machina - Effective health is too high and attack is too high for how tanky they are. Otherwise fine.

Sniper - Siege stance: enough super armor to not be broken, very high damage. Can turn invisible. Long distance tumble.
Warden - Extreme awakening damage with active skill.

**Misuhara** · 08-08-2017, 07:57 PM

Based on versatility. All skills allowed.
Tiers: A/B/C... with a + or -
(Lower → Higher)
ex) C-, C+, B-, B+, A-, A+, S-, S+

My List:

Warrior:
Lunar Knight: S+
Gladiator: S+
Destroyer: A+
Barbarian: A-
Dark Avenger: A+

Archer:
Sharpshooter: A+
Warden: A+
Tempest: S-
Windwalker: A+
Silver Hunter: A+

Sorceress:
Pyromancer: A+
Ice Witch: S+
Chaos Mage: A+
War Mage: A+
Black Mara: A+

Cleric:
Crusader: A-
Guardian: A+
Saint: B-
Inquisitor: B-
Arch Heretic: A-

Tinkerer:
Gear Master: A-
Shooting Star: A+
Adept: A+
Physician: B+

Kali:
Blade Dancer: S+
Spirit Dancer: A+
Soul Eater: S-
Dark Summoner: S+

Assassin:
Reaper: A+
Raven: B+
Lightbringer: A-
Abysswalker: S-

Lencea:
Valkyrie: S-
Dragoon: S-

Machina:
Ruina: A-
Defensio: S+

Would love your feedback or constructive criticism to this.
IGN: Misuhara

**Compel** · 08-09-2017, 05:18 AM

Originally posted by Croaked View Post

Share what you think the class tier list looks like.

With Blacklist, and using 50's mine would look something like this.

Tiers- S/A/B/C ( Simplified )

S- Strongest classes with most of them being able to make a huge error and still win.
A - Strong classes
B - Balanced for the most part, Making one mistake can cost you the match
C - Under powered needs buffs

Warriors

Moonlord - S
Gladiator - S
Barbarian - B
Destroyer - S
Dark Avenger - B

Sorceress

Chaos Mage - A
War Mage - A
Pyro - S
Elestra - S

Archers

Windwalker - S
Tempest - S
Sniper - A
Warden - A
Shunter - B

Kali

Darksummoner - S
Soul Eater - S
Blade Dancer - S
Spirit Dancer - S

Tinkerers

Adept - S
Physician - B
Gearmaster - C
Shooting Star - A

Assassin

Abyss Walker - S
Reaper - S
Raven - A
Light Fury - A

Cleric

Guardian - B
Crusader - B
Inquisitor - B
Saint - C (vs ranged )
Saint - B ( vs melee )
Arch Heretic - A

Lancea

Valkyrie - A
Dragoon - A

Machina

Ruina - A
Defensio - S

If there was a Broken Tier, It would have Gladiator and Reaper.

I like how you claim that Adept's are S rank tier class!

**Compel** · 08-09-2017, 05:38 AM

Originally posted by Croaked View Post

Share what you think the class tier list looks like.

With Blacklist, and using 50's mine would look something like this.

Tiers- S/A/B/C ( Simplified )

S- Strongest classes with most of them being able to make a huge error and still win.
A - Strong classes
B - Balanced for the most part, Making one mistake can cost you the match
C - Under powered needs buffs

Warriors

Moonlord - S
Gladiator - S
Barbarian - B
Destroyer - S
Dark Avenger - B

Sorceress

Chaos Mage - A
War Mage - A
Pyro - S
Elestra - S

Archers

Windwalker - S
Tempest - S
Sniper - A
Warden - A
Shunter - B

Kali

Darksummoner - S
Soul Eater - S
Blade Dancer - S
Spirit Dancer - S

Tinkerers

Adept - S
Physician - B
Gearmaster - C
Shooting Star - A

Assassin

Abyss Walker - S
Reaper - S
Raven - A
Light Fury - A

Cleric

Guardian - B
Crusader - B
Inquisitor - B
Saint - C (vs ranged )
Saint - B ( vs melee )
Arch Heretic - A

Lancea

Valkyrie - A
Dragoon - A

Machina

Ruina - A
Defensio - S

If there was a Broken Tier, It would have Gladiator and Reaper.

What did you say? I was reading it then I think you deleted it

**Croaked** · 08-09-2017, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by Compel View Post

I like how you claim that Adept's are S rank tier class!

Lets see Adepts kit...

Ice Beam

Now it is turnable, 80% Chance per hit to freeze with 17 hits... you aren't getting out of this one... Or dodging it for that matter....The freeze duration is pretty long too. The cooldown is Around 32 seconds with a plate which is really short considering its power and added strength in this classes potential.... Not to mention they have an instant which you can't predict or see coming even if you DID have a chance to somehow avoid the normal version.

Magma Jump

1200 Super Armor Break spammable Rocket crash like I frame that works like a feint, It can be used during any skill and breaks a majority of the skills in the game... can't break a skill? Don't worry with its low Cooldown It also has CTC which means you can use it multiple times in a row, or have it off cooldown for the start of the next match most of the time!

Magma Wall

Also known as Magma Monument, this skill provides a huge aoe lift + explosion which is incredibly hard to dodge with its newfound versatility that allows it to be used in 3 different formations. This is a huge AOE skill on a low cooldown of 25... and what should be a flinch or stagger is a Lift with 400 SAB per hit that explodes after with the same amount of SAB.

Magma Wave

Even after the nerf this skill is just a huge mass of super armor break and aoe... the range is really really too big in my opinion.

Icing Mass

This skill was hardcore buffed, now it pretty much para locks you in place, slows you, and has a slight suction effect trapping you if your caught, It has the insanely low cooldown of 13 seconds with its duration of 4 seconds if your tumble is baited, It can easily be followed up by this skill and then allow them time to setup into their combo... This skill is basically a weaker version of Lunar Knight Tornado ................. Or stronger .... based on how you look at it as this is a lingering effect that doesn't require you to hit them for it to stay, plus it slows and combines with Adepts already high amount of catches.

Parabolic Skills

[Stun Grenade, Icing Mass, Napalm, Disease, Ch25, Mixed infection]
Parabolic skills which requires precise timing for you to be able to dodge them due to the delay, which they have the most amount of skills in the game that fits this category........

Their Utility

Adept pretty much was blessed with the largest range of AOE skills in the game... The most amount of AOE skills in the game, and tons of long ranged catches.

Lets see a list of their best catches

Bubble trouble
Magma Wall
Magma Wave
Icing Mass
Ice Beam
Magma Jump
Magma Punch

Not many classes have that many reliable catches.......

They Also have multiple I frames ( 5 ) Not counting their tumble, a RNG Sleep escape which can be even more powerful than Time dodge... 2 Skills that breaks every skill in the game not counting WAX

Difficulty

Adept is not hard to play at all, in terms of difficulty It is probably the easiest class to pick up for a beginner even easier than Defensio or Majesty..And does't require much thinking to play when you do after you learn how to counter.

Eureka

Reduces damage by .75 Per bubble, which grants them up to 15% Reduced damage on a class that is already hard to catch, now it's harder to kill.

Elemental Flare

High damage + Suction, pretty much inescapable for any class, and easily set up without the need to even be in a combo by any of their lingering control skills such as Ice beam, Magma wave or Ice Flask

**Tarou** · 08-09-2017, 01:43 PM

Croaked

***Now, I hate having to speak on Terminal/Fraternity(Chevy)'s behalf but the only skill you can't dodge with precise timing is magma monument lol...***
(Not saying Adept isn't op, I agree with you, it is, but I have to correct you in your errors as someone who knows how to fight adepts, being one)

Ice Beam: This skill is actually quite easy to cancel at point blank, being 200 sa, you can essentially use any poke skill that has a fast animation. Jump often if you have to, and cancel it with your air->right click.
The instant actually IS predictable, because you have to use tumble->frosty fist in order to instant. If you see frosty fist, move.
Plus, the cooldown is 43 seconds even if you plan to use it in 1v1, but if you do 1v1, you would know that an ice beam cd plate is a waste of a slot.
Nobody should be using their 50's against an adept unless they want an ice beam up the ass anyway.

Magma Monument I can't argue with, it's pretty broken. Can't tumble can't iframe, 4 walls hit for 300 sab each.

Ground Zero, yeah, SAB is 1000 but almost every class has a skill with similar sab by now. Like stun grenade, you can tumble it easily unless you're a noob, so the aoe doesn't really matter.

Coolant/Icing Mass... The lingering suction is pretty annoying but the slow is nothing compared to what it was before, and is manageable. SA tank it with dash.
If you're caught in a combo before it's thrown down, gl though.
Can't compare this to LK's nado, sorry. You can ae out and even get up with an iframe if the adept doesn't keep lifting you.

The sole iframe besides Volcano Jump is Frosty Fist, with Elemental Flair being bl (if you use it you're a pleb) so it's irrelevant. Don't know where you get 5 iframes "not including tumble" from.

Magma Jump's 300SAB/tick (total of 1800 SAB in 6 ticks actually, not 1200) CTC is insane, can't argue with that.

Sleep escape is 30% and fails to cast half the time, time dodge is 100%. Why is that even an argument.
Elemental Flair's iframe starts like 1.5sec after its casted. Can be cancelled by anything in that time (0 SA) so yes, you do have to set it up.

The only adept skill I can't dodge with just tumble remains as W-key Magma Monument, so maybe you're just not familiar enough with the timings.
(Poison Pop, yes, easy to tumble. Stun Grenade, yes. Ground Zero, yes. Bubble Trouble, yes. Ice Beam, don't even fight the adept if they use it because they're trash. Volcano punch, you can aircast tumble if you tumble when the second circle appears.)

Again, yes, Adepts are top unbeatable #1faceroll ezpz class but try to provide accurate information even if you have to try and make it sound as invincible as possible.
I just know the average Adepts are the easiest class for me to fight because they're so predictable it hurts.

On a more relevant note, a reliable class tier list that doesn't generalise and try to place classes into tiers based on 1 criteria is in the making on discord.
Look forward to it.

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