Announcement

**SergeantAmerica** · 03-13-2019, 10:48 PM

IMO they did this to combat botters and also to combat inflation, which both is a good thing. With these new systems, botters can't keep leaving mid game and expect to earn a lot of gold. Also will deter those FDC abusers at STS.

DN also desperately needs a lot of gold sink because all these inflation made by the past Magni events (magni that gives gold as a reward) and also the T3 +20 Gacha Event, has made the economy much much worse. You know I found it funny that people got so mad with these repair fees when it is actually easy to get gold nowadays to balance it, eg. sell the magic/rare victory talismans/heraldries to NPC and you'll get lots of gold to pay for the fees, Hero Gold coins from daily tasks, etc.

All in all, I'd say the new system is good. It forces players to play smartly and manage their resources better, which made the game much healthier and more fun.

**GlassShard** · 03-13-2019, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by SergeantAmerica View Post

IMO they did this to combat botters and also to combat inflation, which both is a good thing. With these new systems, botters can't keep leaving mid game and expect to earn a lot of gold. Also will deter those FDC abusers at STS.

DN also desperately needs a lot of gold sink because all these inflation made by the past Magni events (magni that gives gold as a reward) and also the T3 +20 Gacha Event, has made the economy much much worse. You know I found it funny that people got so mad with these repair fees when it is actually easy to get gold nowadays to balance it, eg. sell the magic/rare victory talismans/heraldries to NPC and you'll get lots of gold to pay for the fees, Hero Gold coins from daily tasks, etc.

All in all, I'd say the new system is good. It forces players to play smartly and manage their resources better, which made the game much healthier and more fun.

Interesting POV with the matter but ultimately, I'll have to disagree.

Short answer

The new repair fee system is bullshit. There are other ways to solve current problems than introducing a heavy penalty that no one ever asked for.

Long answer

Firstly, implementing a heavy penalty in order to to remove "combat bots" is ineffective to the masses. Whilst I do not have data to support my claim, of my near decade experience with this game, I have never found these "combat bots" to be apparent. Even if they were, they barely bothered me as the times you'd bump into them were in insignificant dungeons and a quick boot would immediately solve the issue without having to penalize the entire community. Are "combat bots" even a significant problem rampant in the community that justifies the implementation of a heavy penalty everyone gets?

Secondly, you're narrowing down the demographic to people who "combat bot" would be the only one's to leave mid-game. There are numerous players that would need to leave a normal dungeon mid-game. Here are some common reasons of leaving mid-game:

(1) Forcefully disconnected by the server;
(2) Real life matters;
(3) Sudden power cut;
(4) Sudden disconnect to your ISP;
(5) Mistakenly chosen the wrong dungeon; and
(6) Important guild event/run to attend to.

The new repair fee system penalizes me if any of those were to happen to me and I don't think that's reasonable at all. I came to play the game at my own pace, not to feel locked up in a cage, forced to finish a dungeon or else I'll get whipped. That's not user friendly.

Thirdly, whilst the gold sink idea is reasonable, the methodologies of achieving this gold sink (If ever it's needed, but that's a separate discussion) is not practical. The updated repair fee system affects EVERYONE, irregardless of your status in the game. This means that even new players who just got into the game and reached their max cap are at danger of getting a high penalty fee. Not only that, but players who don't care about the economy of the game (like me) are being affected of a system they barely don't care about. If you want to solve a gold sink issue, that's fine, but under no circumstances is it any fair to involve everyone in the community a system that's deterrent to them, especially to casual and new players. This is how you lose your players slowly.

Finally, the repair fee system, assuming it were to solve the gold sink, would need to be retracted back to its original fee since the gold economy has now stabilized. The logic you speculated is this:

[High amounts of gold -> Gold sink is needed -> Implement New Repair Fee to counteract against the high gold -> Gold amounts drop -> Gold economy stabilizes -> New Repair Fee still charges everyone high costs -> The costs outweigh the income overtime]

This situation would then bring an opposite scenario to what we have now: A scarcity in income. When the gold economy stabilizes, then the need for the new repair fee system is not needed anymore, and thus would need to be removed completely.

The entire repair system is lazy, ineffective, and an incompetent system that does more harm than good, both in the short-term and in the long-term. Not only that, penalizing players for dying basically makes everyone shy away from being a tank because the probability of you dying is highest when you main a role that PROMOTES you to be hit. A role that has been crucial in RPG's ever since it began is being shunned just because of a stupid repair fee. That just screams ED's inability to harmonize the classes roles together in a genre they planted themselves in (MMORPG).

**SergeantAmerica** · 03-15-2019, 02:16 AM

Originally posted by GlassShard View Post

Firstly, implementing a heavy penalty in order to to remove "combat bots" is ineffective to the masses. Whilst I do not have data to support my claim, of my near decade experience with this game, I have never found these "combat bots" to be apparent. Even if they were, they barely bothered me as the times you'd bump into them were in insignificant dungeons and a quick boot would immediately solve the issue without having to penalize the entire community. Are "combat bots" even a significant problem rampant in the community that justifies the implementation of a heavy penalty everyone gets?

And the problem is that both you and I do not have the data, and the only one who have data is ED themselves, so that means whatever changes they're doing, at least they must have a reason behind it. I know sometimes they fucked it up but at least they can see the bigger picture than us.

What I'm saying is, why don't we cool ourselves down and see if it brings any positives changes after some time? Maybe give it like a few months to see if it's bad or good? From the game economy standpoint, I'd say the changes are definitely good, at least now DN have more gold sink (that is effective, judging by how many rants there is), and that's what's important, because they are important for the game economy, and the game economy is closely related to the overall health of the game.

Originally posted by GlassShard View Post

Thirdly, whilst the gold sink idea is reasonable, the methodologies of achieving this gold sink (If ever it's needed, but that's a separate discussion) is not practical. The updated repair fee system affects EVERYONE, irregardless of your status in the game. This means that even new players who just got into the game and reached their max cap are at danger of getting a high penalty fee. Not only that, but players who don't care about the economy of the game (like me) are being affected of a system they barely don't care about. If you want to solve a gold sink issue, that's fine, but under no circumstances is it any fair to involve everyone in the community a system that's deterrent to them, especially to casual and new players. This is how you lose your players slowly.

And this is why there will always be a problem with changes to the economy like these new systems because *most* people just don't care, they just want to do their shit quickly, as much as they can, whenever they wanted. And this is precisely why they will never get what they wanted, because by not caring, they made it harder.

If you understand a bit of economics, the problem is that, economy encompasses everything. Everything we do in the game, is linked to the economy. We can't do anything without affecting the economy, just like in the real world. Economy also dictates players motivation, eg. people doing nests because it gives them something that can be sold on the market. If you instead give them crap that they can't sell or use or basically have no values, why would they'd do that nest then? (no motivation)

Also, changes that's good like this is often get rejected by the players because they feels it as "slightly inconvenient" (just like the repair fees). On the other hand, changes that are really bad, eg. the T3+20 Gacha Event, Magni Events, anything that inject bazillion of gold to the market, are viewed by the community as "good" and were fought to the nail and teeth, because it gives them OP items with (almost) zero efforts, while it actually wreck havoc to the economy later on. But hey, they don't care. And that's the problem.

If you really care about DN and want to keep playing it, you need to see farther than the reason that it eats your gold reserves. Gold sink is necessary, nuff said. No MMO games will survive without gold sink, because when inflation is rampant, players will lose motivation. Everything will be so expensive that most of their effort are basically worthless, so why would you spend time doing something if it will become worthless? As easy as that.

Originally posted by GlassShard View Post

Finally, the repair fee system, assuming it were to solve the gold sink, would need to be retracted back to its original fee since the gold economy has now stabilized. The logic you speculated is this:

[High amounts of gold -> Gold sink is needed -> Implement New Repair Fee to counteract against the high gold -> Gold amounts drop -> Gold economy stabilizes -> New Repair Fee still charges everyone high costs -> The costs outweigh the income overtime]

This situation would then bring an opposite scenario to what we have now: A scarcity in income. When the gold economy stabilizes, then the need for the new repair fee system is not needed anymore, and thus would need to be removed completely.

That is assuming that economy has stabilized, which is far from the truth. The truth is, all of those damages to the economy in the past is basically irrepairable. We're way past the point of no return now. I'm sure you must have noticed those crazy gold needed to enhance items right? The reason for that? Inflation. ED needs to remove so much gold from the economy just to keep it going worse. And sadly they've done a bad job on it, because instead of forcing people to enhance their equips manually, they instead opt to give people T3+20 basically for free (another rant of the fakkin Gacha Event), which made a lot of gold that potentially be removed, now still circulating in the market, basically made the inflation worse.

**GlassShard** · 03-15-2019, 05:07 AM

SergeantAmerica

Short answer

You're completely missing the point why everyone is dissatisfied with this patch and the new repair fee system.

This thread isn't here to argue about the necessity of solving the gold sink. This thread, and majority of other similar threads, is here to tackle the effectiveness and how reasonable the system is, to which, from our findings, is pure bullshit. If you wanna solve the gold sink, fine, just don't use the repair fee that affects every single player as your solution.

Long answer:

Originally posted by SergeantAmerica View Post

And the problem is that both you and I do not have the data, and the only one who have data is ED themselves, so that means whatever changes they're doing, at least they must have a reason behind it. I know sometimes they fucked it up but at least they can see the bigger picture than us.

What I'm saying is, why don't we cool ourselves down and see if it brings any positives changes after some time? Maybe give it like a few months to see if it's bad or good? From the game economy standpoint, I'd say the changes are definitely good, at least now DN have more gold sink (that is effective, judging by how many rants there is), and that's what's important, because they are important for the game economy, and the game economy is closely related to the overall health of the game.

The thing is though is that I don't need data to see through a terrible system that's implemented. Also, my main point of the data was just to see if combat bots are frequent or not. Another means of data gathering is through the use of player feedback, which, I have never seen an influx of people complaining about combat bots. As I stated in my previous arguments, even if combat bots are a significant issue, increasing the repair fee to an unreasonable amount is not the way to go. Also, you've been completely focusing on the economic result of things and disregarding the methodology of how they achieve it. Again, I don't mind if you want to solve the gold sink. The issue is that the way they go about it is ineffective and downright non-user friendly (As based on the rants).

I find it surprising that you would use the criticisms, complaints, and ranting as a way to further say "It's working!!!", when the message we've been giving out clearly hasn't mainly been the economy. It's just us telling ED to lower down the repair fee because it's not doing anyone good, especially the casual and new players.

Originally posted by SergeantAmerica View Post

And this is why there will always be a problem with changes to the economy like these new systems because *most* people just don't care, they just want to do their shit quickly, as much as they can, whenever they wanted. And this is precisely why they will never get what they wanted, because by not caring, they made it harder.

Annnnnnd, what's wrong with that?

I fail to see how people who just want to finish stuff quickly and getting the optimal returns as an issue. Am I being penalized because I have a life outside this game? I've never heard someone who would gladly make their life harder and slower just for the sake of it.

Are you telling me that the way I play is wrong? What's this about not caring about the game? We're simply appalled at the decision ED has done to raise a repair fee (Which, mind you, no one asked for) to unreasonable amounts. Thus far, people have been agreeing with me.

Originally posted by SergeantAmerica View Post

If you understand a bit of economics, the problem is that, economy encompasses everything. Everything we do in the game, is linked to the economy. We can't do anything without affecting the economy, just like in the real world. Economy also dictates players motivation, eg. people doing nests because it gives them something that can be sold on the market. If you instead give them crap that they can't sell or use or basically have no values, why would they'd do that nest then? (no motivation)

If I wanted to get into a game about hardcore economics, I'd play Roller Coaster Tycoon, because at least the game is marketed that way. If I wanted to learn more about economics, I'd enroll in an economy course at university, because at least it's my decision to.

However, I don't want to do either of those (And I assume the majority as well). Dragon Nest is not a game where the main focus is through economy. It might be part of the game but it will never be the focus of it. It's an MMORPG where you hop in to kill mobs, collect their loot, upgrade yourself, and have fun along the way. I honestly don't see why you're so stuck up with the economic value in this game when the main issue is that the repair fee is unreasonably high.

Originally posted by SergeantAmerica View Post

Also, changes that's good like this is often get rejected by the players because they feels it as "slightly inconvenient" (just like the repair fees). On the other hand, changes that are really bad, eg. the T3+20 Gacha Event, Magni Events, anything that inject bazillion of gold to the market, are viewed by the community as "good" and were fought to the nail and teeth, because it gives them OP items with (almost) zero efforts, while it actually wreck havoc to the economy later on. But hey, they don't care. And that's the problem.

Straight up losing 1k gold because I disconnected twice (which is out of my control) is not slightly inconvenient lmao. Nor does my thread defend other changes (Those are for a different discussion). I literally listed common reasons why this would be deterrent to casual/new players and you just seem to bypass it:

(1) Forcefully disconnected by the server;
(2) Real life matters;
(3) Sudden power cut;
(4) Sudden disconnect to your ISP;
(5) Mistakenly chosen the wrong dungeon; and
(6) Important guild event/run to attend to.

Originally posted by SergeantAmerica View Post

If you really care about DN and want to keep playing it, you need to see farther than the reason that it eats your gold reserves.

Yeah, and the reason for me complaining is because the fee is unreasonably high for casual/new players who doesn't even have gold reserves lol.

Originally posted by SergeantAmerica View Post

Gold sink is necessary, nuff said. No MMO games will survive without gold sink, because when inflation is rampant, players will lose motivation. Everything will be so expensive that most of their effort are basically worthless, so why would you spend time doing something if it will become worthless? As easy as that.

My thread never argued of the necessity of Gold sink. My thread argued about how reasonable and effective the increase in repair fee is to casual/new players.

Originally posted by SergeantAmerica View Post

That is assuming that economy has stabilized, which is far from the truth. The truth is, all of those damages to the economy in the past is basically irrepairable. We're way past the point of no return now. I'm sure you must have noticed those crazy gold needed to enhance items right? The reason for that? Inflation. ED needs to remove so much gold from the economy just to keep it going worse. And sadly they've done a bad job on it, because instead of forcing people to enhance their equips manually, they instead opt to give people T3+20 basically for free (another rant of the fakkin Gacha Event), which made a lot of gold that potentially be removed, now still circulating in the market, basically made the inflation worse.

So, instead of implementing a system that would lower down the input of gold, they're instead opting to increase the costs, lowering down income, AND forcing you to do this. That doesn't sound like the right way for me.

Here's the issue:

You look at this from an entire economical standpoint. Is that wrong? No, of course not but people don't come in Dragon Nest to be a business man or be an economist. Majority of the players just want to sit down and have fun with the game. The repair fee takes away this mindset for the following reasons:

(1) It penalizes players whenever something out of their control happens (e.g: Disconnecting), thus demotivating them from running dungeons in the fear of losing even more of their gold.
(2) The penalty is too high for casual or new players who just got back/got in/rarely play the game. The cost in enhancing our equipment is already depleting us faster than we could earn and now a penalty system that no one asked for (or was needed) is being implemented
(3) No one cares about repair fees.

Along with this, you're missing the main point of why we're complaining to ED. We're not complaining because we're against the gold sink. We're complaining because the repair fee increase is unreasonable and uncalled for. Not a single soul ever asked for this. If your main arguments just keep telling me "It's for gold sink!", then I have this rebuttal to you: Use another solution that isn't bullshit and poorly thought out of.

Conclusion

I don't give a fuck about the gold sink man. Just don't charge me high amounts of gold for playing your game lmao. I just wanna play without having to worry about being heavily penalized.

**Skyros** · 03-15-2019, 06:52 AM

Some input:
A) ED has nothing to fix cause this is intended (and not a bug).
B) This shiet-show of a change has been recently changed again in KR's Red Lotus Patch.

Either we wait for Red Lotus to come or we riot (and quit) enough for ED to give a rat's ass about this. I personally sent a ticket and I hope that's going to bear fruit if enough people sends it. As for now, we wait.

**GlassShard** · 03-15-2019, 07:38 AM

Originally posted by Skyros View Post

Some input:
A) ED has nothing to fix cause this is intended (and not a bug).
B) This shiet-show of a change has been recently changed again in KR's Red Lotus Patch.

Either we wait for Red Lotus to come or we riot (and quit) enough for ED to give a rat's ass about this. I personally sent a ticket and I hope that's going to bear fruit if enough people sends it. As for now, we wait.

Yeah, we've already gotten past the whole bug thing and are now just waiting for the fix to come in.

**Azonia** · 03-20-2019, 01:36 AM

"Oh no! Oh no! Don't die. Boom, oh no! 33g! Hahhaha! That's 33 g! T_T!"

"Hey I'm gonna go floor 30. You guys wanna tag along? I'll carry you."
"We intend to duo floor 15 only, just to spend remaining FTG. We're tired"
"Ok, i'll carry you"
"Floor 30? Sure? Ok, if we die, you pay our repair fee, deal?"

Lol. Real talk. That's from our Discord. Insane isn't it?

Hey, EG! Look what you made us do!

**Zengeroff** · 03-26-2019, 12:52 PM

On NA running Loffy's Treasure Dungeon, I legit wasnt even hit in the entire thing and was charged over 200g for repair.

This shit is crazy. I guess that'll teach me to use Scylla gear :/

**GlassShard** · 03-26-2019, 04:54 PM

Update on this:

With the patch on fixing the repair fee upon leaving (Meaning they won't charge us anymore for Disconnecting or leaving), I'm actually okay with the idea of reducing the durability upon death (It's always been this way but the fee increased significantly). 2 reason why I'm okay with this rather than against it:

(1) The patch also came with a damage fix. This means that the difficulty of the dungeons (or nests) should at least be reasonable (Unless you go up a level above your capabilities). Then dying should be, for the most part, majority of your decision. As for beginner's/new player's who are still trying to get into the game, the fee won't be as much as I'm sure new player's would start off with Neris (Which the World Remaster has set fee levels for every tier)

(2) It incites meaning into dying in dungeons. Death should have a negative stigma towards it or else it's useless. It entices player's to actually have certain roles in the game that prevents you from dying. From my experience, I was elated that my job as a full support Guardian actually had purpose by provoking those high damaged mobs away from my teammates. I quite enjoyed my experience on that one.

So, yeah, as long as they only set the repair fee when you die and balance out the damage on the dungeons and nests, I'd say it's a pretty reasonable (and actually improvement) implementation.

Announcement

Repair Fee is absolutely insane and retarded

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