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  • Maximizing Damage Potential: Elemental Conversion Jades

    Why should I consider being elemental?
    Elemental Attack is another damage multiplier in the game which can further amplify your damage output.

    The computation is somehow like this

    Attack Power * Elemental Attack * Critical Damage * Final Damage = Damage Output.

    How can I be elemental?
    You can become an Elemental Class by equipping an Elemental Conversion Jade to your main weapon.

    What are Elemental Conversion Jades?
    Elemental Conversion Jades (ECJ) are offensive jades that convert neutral skill attacks to elemental attacks with a certain penalty.

    Who should use Elemental Conversion Jades?
    ECJs should only be used by neutral classes.

    What are Neutral Classes?
    Neutral classes have 80 - 100% skills which do not have any elemental attribute.
    Here is the list of neutral classes.
    Warrior Archer Sorceress Academic Kali Lancea Machina
    Moonlord Sniper Smasher Gear Master Blade Dancer Flurry Ruina
    Gladiator Artillery Shooting Star Spirit Dancer Defensio
    Barbarian Windwalker Ray Mechanic
    Destroyer Tempest
    I am not on the above list, would ECJ make me stronger?
    If you are not on the above list, then it means you are an Elemental Class. Which means most of your skills already have elements.
    Additionally, ECJ will not have any effect on most of your skills, aside from a few basic class tree.
    For short, no. On the contrary, it will only make you weaker due to the penalty. (And you probably do not like that.)

    Alright, so I am in the list, what is the best element for my class?
    Based from the current scenario and future update information, all elements are the same. This is because there is only a few nest with elemental resists, and those nest happens to be Dragon Nests.
    Most of the time, ECJ users prepare all elements and change to applicable element per stage.
    Which means that you can select from one (1) of the four (4) elements.

    What are the four (4) Elements?
    Heatwave (Fire), Iceberg (Ice), Lightning (Light) and Abyss (Dark).
    Last edited by nvLite; 12-06-2017, 09:28 AM.
    Lorallite (Windwalker)

    Florailite (Gear Master) | Erudelite (Physician)
    Machilite | Michalite
    (Impactor)
    Larallite| Lirallite | Lyrallite
    (
    Windwalker)
    Promilite | Athenalite
    (Flurry)

  • #2
    Will equipping ECJ give a certain debuff to my enemies?
    Errrr, no. ECJs only convert attacks into elements. That’s it. It does not carry any debuff effect.

    <List of not applicable scenarios to follow>

    What percent of Elemental Attack is good enough?
    As going elemental will make you sacrifice Destruction/Magic Jades to Elemental Enhancement Jades, the threshold is as below.
    Cap Threshold
    93 below between 16 – 18%
    95 around 32%
    NOTE: The scenario is different on Parties with elemental debuffs in effect. Elemental Attacks would always be greater on parties. (Provided an elemental debuffer is available)\

    How do you increase your elemental attack?
    Luckily, there are various in-game items which are available if you are diligent enough on farming.
    Item Quantity Bearing Total
    Elemental Conversion Jade aka ECJ

    (Abyss, Lightning, Heatwave or Iceberg)
    1 -15% -15%
    Elemental Title
    • Enraged (Archbishop Nest)
    • Partner of Counter Attack (Manticore Nest)
    • etc.
    1 5% 5%
    Epic Elemental Enhancement Jade 3 8.10% 24.30%
    Magic Cash Rings 2 2% 4%
    Skill Rings 2 4.07 8.14%
    Total Elemental Attack: 26.44%
    A further increase would need you to grind more or spend.

    Items below are highly available in the cash shop.
    Cash Item Quantity Bearing Total
    Rare Cash Lower Body 1 4% 4%
    Rare Secondary Cash Weapon 1 3% 3%
    Total Elemental Attack: +7%
    Items below have low attainability and can depend on RNG (if you chose to craft or gamble via Altea Box) or Budget (if you choose to buy)
    Cash Item Quantity Bearing Total
    Epic Cash Lower Body 1 12% (-4% if you are changing Rare Cash lowerbody) 8%
    Epic Secondary Cash Weapon 1 10% (-3% if you are changing Rare Cash Sub weapon) 7%
    Epic Decal 1 4% 4%
    Epic Tail 1 4% 4%
    Black Dragon Emerald Rings 2 3% (-2% if you are replacing Magic Cash Rings) 2%
    Total Elemental Attack: +25%
    Last edited by nvLite; 11-24-2017, 06:48 AM.
    Lorallite (Windwalker)

    Florailite (Gear Master) | Erudelite (Physician)
    Machilite | Michalite
    (Impactor)
    Larallite| Lirallite | Lyrallite
    (
    Windwalker)
    Promilite | Athenalite
    (Flurry)

    Comment


    • #3
      How can I increase it further?
      Your damage can be further amplified by debuffs.
      Solo Perspective
      Weapon Engraving
      Fortunately, the developers provided a way for Neutral classes to have access to Elemental Debuff via Weapon Engravings. It provides 10% decrease in All Attribute Resistance.

      Short Note: For Engineer Classes, you already have an elemental debuff via Chemical grenade.
      A Reliable Mercenary/Hero
      Mercenaries or Heroes are summoned for parties that consists of 1 or 2 members only.
      These mercenaries assist you in battle, and some of them also provide elemental attribute resistance at a certain level.

      Please Refer to this document by Silvie and Hieratia for Mercenaries
      https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...vbRtCRf4HzVCx4
      Party Perspective
      Attribute resistance is widely available on parties. There are a majority of classes that could provide 20% Attribute Resistance decrease.




      For further reading about debuffs, please refer to Xenocho’s thread: [Mini-Guide] Making Yourself Stronger With Debuffs!
      Last edited by nvLite; 07-13-2018, 05:40 AM.
      Lorallite (Windwalker)

      Florailite (Gear Master) | Erudelite (Physician)
      Machilite | Michalite
      (Impactor)
      Larallite| Lirallite | Lyrallite
      (
      Windwalker)
      Promilite | Athenalite
      (Flurry)

      Comment


      • #4
        The Law of Diminishing Returns (LDR)

        NOTE: This is a theoretical point of view, based on naked stats. For geared players, it is usually best to have a proper gear sim and calculate which is better to change from AP or EP.

        NOTE 2: For a better material for the below matter, kindly refer to Xenocho's Guide: here

        LDR states that at a certain point, adding more would actually give you less.

        Though it is true that Elemental Attack is another multiplier and amplifies your damage output better but having a big figure elemental attack does not necessarily make you stronger.

        To further elaborate this, let us have a scenario below. In this scenario, let us say that both Conan and Ran have the SGG and Teardrop title, but since you can only equip one title ability, Conan chose SGG because it will increase his elemental attack further, making him stronger and Ran chose to equip Teardrop.
        Conan Ran
        Attack Power (AP) 100000 100000
        Elemental Attack(%) 40 40
        Title Ability (unequipped) Sharing Goddess Grief (+8% element) Teardrop (+8% AP)


        After equipping Titles, stats would be as shown below:
        Conan Ran
        Attack Power (AP) 100000 108000
        Elemental Attack(%) 48 40
        Title Ability (equipped) Sharing Goddess Grief (+8% element) Teardrop (+8% AP)

        Looking at the figures, one can say that Conan is much stronger than Ran because his elemental attack is greater than Ran. However, is that really the case?
        Current Attack Power Attack Power increase % Total Attack Power Current Elemental Attack % Elemental Attack Increase % Total Elemental Attack % Elemental Damage Multiplier Total Damage Output
        Conan (SGG) 100000 0 100000 40 8 48 1.48 148000
        Ran (Teardrop) 100000 8 108000 40 0 40 1.4 151200
        As in the example above, we can see that despite Conan having the greater elemental attack, and Ran has a better damage output than him.

        In this scenario, Conan suffered the Law of Diminishing Returns in a way that when he thought to have that equipping the Sharing Goddess Grief title and increasing his Elemental Attack to a bigger figure will make him much stronger than Ran, where in fact, he did not.

        More over LDR as per Xenocho

        Diminishing returns happen always, not only when you have 100% ele

        In analogy:
        Case 1: you have 2 apples. you get 1 apple.
        Case 2: you have 10 apples, you get 1 apple.

        In case 1, you get 1 apple to make 3 apples. 3 apples versus 2 apples is a 50% increment from adding 1 apple.

        In case 2, you get 1 apple to make 11 apples. 11 apples versus 10 apples is only a 10% increment from adding 1 apple.

        In both cases, you add the same amount of apples but the "gain" in case 1 is higher because you have less apples in the first place.

        Put into context of DN, when you have high ele attack, you gain less from adding. Total ele attack is counted as (100% + ele %)
        For example, 50% ele + 10% ele = 160%/150% = 6.67% gain. However, 10% ele + 10% ele = 120%/110% = 9.09% gain.

        The "gain less" due to high amounts you have is basically diminishing returns.


        Concluding Thoughts
        I hope this has been helpful on why you should consider going elemental.

        Additionally, I hope I got all information correct, including the LDR part which is somehow confusing.
        For any corrections, just let me know so I will be able to update.
        Last edited by nvLite; 06-08-2018, 07:06 AM.
        Lorallite (Windwalker)

        Florailite (Gear Master) | Erudelite (Physician)
        Machilite | Michalite
        (Impactor)
        Larallite| Lirallite | Lyrallite
        (
        Windwalker)
        Promilite | Athenalite
        (Flurry)

        Comment


        • Raniyama
          Raniyama commented
          Editing a comment
          just wanna clarify guys Xenocho and @nvLite,

          So to minimize the diminishing returns, you have to fill up what is low.. in a sense...

          so if I already have High Amount of p-attack, and low ele-attack.... Does it mean it would be beneficial to add ele-attack than pushing more on P.attack, considering all cost/mats/etc are equal whether I add p-attack or ele-attack.

        • Xenocho
          Xenocho commented
          Editing a comment
          Raniyama Yes. In a way, you should balance both for the greatest effect. The stats increased by multiplication, and multiplication has the highest result when both values are closer to each other (e.g. 2 * 6 vs 4 * 4)

        • Raniyama
          Raniyama commented
          Editing a comment
          Xenocho gotcha.. thanks.. the idea is like getting the largest area a given perimeter can cover...

      • #5
        For further reading:
        What's A Good Percent Of Element Attack?
        Element Question

        Acknowledgements
        • @Xenocho for taking his time to review the guide. He is also the resource of most threads I have read. Thank you.
        Last edited by nvLite; 09-26-2017, 10:41 AM.
        Lorallite (Windwalker)

        Florailite (Gear Master) | Erudelite (Physician)
        Machilite | Michalite
        (Impactor)
        Larallite| Lirallite | Lyrallite
        (
        Windwalker)
        Promilite | Athenalite
        (Flurry)

        Comment


        • #6
          just in case.
          Lorallite (Windwalker)

          Florailite (Gear Master) | Erudelite (Physician)
          Machilite | Michalite
          (Impactor)
          Larallite| Lirallite | Lyrallite
          (
          Windwalker)
          Promilite | Athenalite
          (Flurry)

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by nelznolz

            I think the threshold for ECJ should be above 25% tho..
            Look. If you use x4 Dest/Mag jades, it will give you 5.75% attk each, which makes it 1.0575^4 = 1.2506. Meaning, using x4 Dest/Mag jades will give you +25% attk.
            So if you want to use ECJ, I think you should exceed or at least reach 25%
            Hi~! offensive jades only give 4% ~ 4.5% increase
            Attached Files
            Lorallite (Windwalker)

            Florailite (Gear Master) | Erudelite (Physician)
            Machilite | Michalite
            (Impactor)
            Larallite| Lirallite | Lyrallite
            (
            Windwalker)
            Promilite | Athenalite
            (Flurry)

            Comment


            • nvLite
              nvLite commented
              Editing a comment
              tho I will recheck again and test it out in game.

          • #8
            Originally posted by nelznolz

            I think the threshold for ECJ should be above 25% tho..
            Look. If you use x4 Dest/Mag jades, it will give you 5.75% attk each, which makes it 1.0575^4 = 1.2506. Meaning, using x4 Dest/Mag jades will give you +25% attk.
            So if you want to use ECJ, I think you should exceed or at least reach 25%
            Destruction plate, costumes, titles, genesis rings also contribute to the atk % and therefore suffer diminishing returns. They are not absolute +25% attack as you stated. Also your 5.75% is from the potential system which gears are outdated and therefore have no value nowadays.

            ​​​​​​
            Originally posted by nvLite View Post

            Hi~! offensive jades only give 4% ~ 4.5% increase
            I think you need to strongly emphasize solo there to prevent people from thinking dest is better. There is no way dest can outdo ECJ with identical jades in a situation where ele debuff is provided.
            Remmystarr from Eden (Discord: Xenocho #8012)
            Please try to read my guide before asking questions on gear optimisation here;
            Old and outdated Engineer guide here; Selling FDN service for FDN weaps (Read here!);

            Comment


            • #9
              Hey guys,do you where to get these ECJ ??

              Comment


              • #10
                Originally posted by Nytetingale View Post
                Hey guys,do you where to get these ECJ ??
                Before , RDE pouch , Now only from TH , I'm one of the seller. In the future it will be sold in sparkle store , don't know when it is implemented here in SEA.

                Comment


                • Rashja
                  Rashja commented
                  Editing a comment
                  correct me if im wrong but i think you can also buy them from dark priestess whats-her-name for 1000 nest points.

                • atom100
                  atom100 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  seriously Rashja look at the date when i post that, at that time no ECJ yet at nest point shop.

              • #11
                Originally posted by Xenocho View Post

                I think you need to strongly emphasize solo there to prevent people from thinking dest is better. There is no way dest can outdo ECJ with identical jades in a situation where ele debuff is provided.
                I have updated the post with the justification of the threshold. Additionally, I have noted the information for Parties.

                I am not sure why but I am curious where this 25% info came from. I used to believe in that as well but with calculations it seems that 16-18 are the proper threshold.
                Lorallite (Windwalker)

                Florailite (Gear Master) | Erudelite (Physician)
                Machilite | Michalite
                (Impactor)
                Larallite| Lirallite | Lyrallite
                (
                Windwalker)
                Promilite | Athenalite
                (Flurry)

                Comment


                • #12
                  Hi, nvLite i would like to request if i could use this entire chunk of information in my guide since i'm a lazy asshole.. i will properly credit you for the work.
                  Last edited by Chelly; 09-26-2017, 01:26 AM.

                  They appeared, gleaming and victorious. Our Emperors, breathless, bathed you in savior's silk. Then came the sound. Across all our worlds,the ceremonial Naga drums. Ten solemn beats to declare the suffering was over. With each beat terror began to crush my throat. They were not stoic and silent. I tried to call out but only a strangled whisper escaped.
                  When the ninth beat rang a torrent of blood filled the stadium, loosed by divine blades.The drums,the Empire, fell silent forever.

                  Comment


                  • nvLite
                    nvLite commented
                    Editing a comment
                    LMAO chelly xD. ofcourse, Feel free!
                    Last edited by nvLite; 09-26-2017, 01:59 AM.

                • #13
                  Hi , I just got one question that's been bothering me.

                  Does elemental skill debuff and weapon engraving elemental debuff stack?

                  Comment


                  • nvLite
                    nvLite commented
                    Editing a comment
                    darkb1ader debuffs from same source or effect does not stack. So engraving debuff will not stack with another engraving debuff.

                  • darkb1ader
                    darkb1ader commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I know debuffs from same sources doesn't stack but I just thought that maybe engraving is different because it's a cash item
                    Anyways thanks alot for the info.

                  • Xenocho
                    Xenocho commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I like your optimism LOL but cash items would most likely still follow the rules of standard gear. But of course, best to be tested. I will try if I can get my hands on dual ele engraving weap costumes

                • #14
                  Sticky for this one.

                  Comment


                  • #15
                    update guide & maths for 95 gems that have boosted phys/mag :^)

                    Discord: Muppo#5140

                    Comment


                    • nvLite
                      nvLite commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I have updated it. please see threshold part.
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