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Skill Revamp Suggestion: Saint

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  • Skill Revamp Suggestion: Saint


    Since the Light Fury and Physician class got their revamp, both of them have been a better DPS than the Saint with almost equal of healing powers of the Saint but in my opinion is great considering there should be other choices of healer roles other than the Saint, but in terms of DPS, The saint is being left behind and now LF is the top competitor for being the best healing class with a jack of all trades for being a good dps, a good healer and support, also with the assassin's party buff revamp turns into an elemental increase type of skill which buffs up the party with 10% more elemental buff, and on top of that LF is more agile and mobile than the saint which in my opinion is so slow whenever casting his most remarkable skills such as antiphona pool and blessed sign which is his best DPS skills after the Awakening.

    We will discuss what are the differences of the Saint with the other 2 Support class in the game:
    • Mobility - in terms of movement speed, with the buffs applied when relics are used on Class Mastery, The saint is fast enough, but in terms of the pace for the saint to cast certain skills, it is somewhat too slow, this makes him vulnerable in so many occasions, requires positioning wherever and whenever he needs to use these said abilities
    • DPS - The DPS of the saint is problem, but since clerics are supposed to be a class in which relatively has lower dps in terms of board damage of their abilities, i can understand that LF and Physician succeeds the saint, but even so the dps isn't really comparable to that even 3/4 of the inquisitor's ability to deal damage, the dps of saint is too weak. I am not saying to make the Saint OP, but rather increase his ability to deal dps, LF and Physician has way more DPS capability than the saint, that is what i'm saying.
    • Antiphona Pool and Blessed Sign - both of this skills are decent in terms of dealing dps but not good enough
    • Summoning Relics -

      Lightning Relic - The 3 small lightning relics falls too slow, even with just 1 second delay could miss the chance to use SoR considering the other 2 relics are way too important to waste to deal dps.
      Healing Relic and Cure Relic - their skill animation is quite a bit slow, making the character vulnerable to many dangers while using the skill.

    Now let me share you my idea on how to actually improve Saint:

    • Shock of Relic
      • Should have a better casting animation, should have the ability to be used whenever possible, similar to that of Cure Relic being able to use even in the middle of using a skill or summoning another relic
    • Bind Relic EX (Requires level 8 bind relic)
      • Gives falling damage of 1000% of character's attack power
    • Class Mastery II
      • Adds in Bind Relic as the triggering system for having self buff as proposed on Class Mastery II (10% Light Attack for 20 Seconds)
    • [Awakening Passive] Saint Role
      • Add in some passive enhancement for certain skills

        Cure Relic and Healing Relic - While skill is being used, action speed increases by 30%
        Protection Shell - Cooldown is improved from 85 seconds to 60 seconds
    • [Awakening Passive] Lightning Relic
      • Since Lightning Relic is the only skill that the Saint depends mostly to deal damage using SoR, i suggest that there should be atleast 2 additional cooldowns saved whenever possible, this is to better improve the ability of the saint for relic placement to further improve the dps of SoR
    • Antiphona Pool
      • This skill needs to have a faster pulsating (explosion) rate for where it deals damage because the moment the holy dot is shot from the ground, it stays there for a moment, and if the enemy moves away, the skill is pretty much useless, so positioning and the right timing of using the skill is necessary, a disadvantage of some skills of the saint
    • Blessed Sign
      • Should be improved with a better skill animation, and deal damage at a faster rate since the channeling sequence of the skill is holding the character in a steady position which is a problem, either the player avoids the boss and cancel the channeling of the spell, or take the hit head-on in order to deal the most dps.

        Could be improved if rather the skill is given less lands to deal and just increase the damage and increased damage dealt to monsters when certain hits of the skill to the enemy is achieved
    • [Awakening Passive] Holy Burst
      • This awakening passive is pretty much lacks that punch, it is good in terms of actually summoning a lot of relics around an enemy
        I suggest to have Holy Burst an additional cooldown saved in order to use at any moment, giving the ability for the saint to improve in dps.
    • Immortality
      • I know this is already too much, 3 seconds of invulnerability is already a good advantage, but in my opinion should have atleast a 5 second buff duration since 3 seconds won't be enough in some cases

    Any of your opinion is highly appreciated, you can also suggest any other skill changes for the saint to better improve their potential.
    Last edited by Mr.Shovels; 03-08-2019, 09:01 PM.

  • #2
    Although I don't really play PvE anymore... Here are some of my thoughts:
    • Isn't the Enhanced Antiphona Pool (additional dots) triggered by Grand Cross Awakening?
    • As for CMIII, Holy Bolt enhances Blessed Sign instead...
    • I don't see a reason for Wand Mastery to be a buff (wastes hot-key slots) and Eyedentity has mostly gotten rid of party buff for a reason.... (Oh hey, that old era where there are literally only 2 free slots for others.)
    • Not sure what you mean by "Casting Speed improves" for Healing/Cure Relic, Do you want them to be summoned faster (Cause that's what "casting speed" technically means) or do you want them to apply their effects (What I think you want?) at a faster rate?
    • About the Miracle Relic Awakening Passive... Does the Bind Relic EX shoot out 2 types of Holy Energy at the same time (one with Holy Burst's damage & the other with Miracle Relic's damage) or does it overwrite the Bind Relic EX's Holy Energy (Holy Burst)?
    I'll leave the skills to those who understand PvE.... because I'll be very upset if I have to face this in PvP.


    • Mr.Shovels
      Mr.Shovels commented
      Editing a comment
      i don't think i may have suggested the best possible outcomes for a saint revamp and may have made saint too op for this...

      the reason i wanted to have Wand Mastery to be toggled type skill is to bring back the previous function of the toggly type ability from the paladin's skill tree atleast, but i don't think it is necessary so whenever i get the time i will edit this to a more balanced skill revamp.

      Yes, but i suggested to replace the awakening passive grand cross with another awakening passive

      What i mean by Casting speed improves by 50% is that the animation for summoning the relics takes around a second and a half, full 2 seconds without any action speed buff.

      The Miracle Relic shouldn't affect Bind Relic since it already shoots holy light from the ground similar to that of holy burst awakening passive but i may have to edit it out.

      I will need to make major changes on my suggestions, this seems pretty much OP and the current saint satisfy pretty much anyone's criteria for a support class but it needs a bit more tweaks to really compete with Light Fury or Physician, both of them are very versatile with abilities that requires less standing and idling and doesn't need that much positioning.

      And Saint is the only one with the ability to actually provide invulnerability which is great on many situations, its just that saint lacks a bit on the dps department and on the ability to cast their skills at a faster pace

  • #3
    Here's my version of Saint balancing (or small rework)

    • Relic collision and targeting removed (like GM Towers so basically invulnerable but still can be removed by mech wipe to promote skillful use)
    • Reduce Relic 'drop delay' by 50%

    Skill Changes:

    Lightning Relic
    • Now pulses an Electric Field to deal damage; 3m AoE and pulses every 2 seconds.
    • Removed 'relic drop' damage.
    Lightning Relic EX
    • Effect Changed: Damage increased by 50%; AoE increased to 5m
    • Cooldown increased to 10 seconds
    Healing Relic
    • Removed 'relic drop' damage
    Cure Relic
    • Removed 'relic drop' damage
    Cure Relic EX
    • +MoveSpd buff duration increased to 25s.
    • +MoveSpd buff increased to 30%.
    • Now applies the buff immediately after cast.
    Bind Relic
    • Removed 'relic drop' damage.
    • Summon duration increased from 9s -> 12s (30s duration at max level for potential 100% debuff uptime)
    Shock of Relic
    • Skill delay removed.
    • Visual cue on AoE improved.
    Class Mastery I
    • +MoveSpd buff changed to +30% ActSpd buff.
    Class Mastery II
    • Changed skill trigger from Holy Burst to Grand Cross.
    • Duration increased to 30 seconds.
    [Awakened] Holy Burst
    • Relic AoE increased to 3m.
    [Awakening] Saint's Role:
    • Added Effect: [Miracle Relic] Buff duration increased to 10 seconds.
    Skill Rework:

    [Awakened] Lightning Relic
    • Removed Small Relic 'drop damage'.
    • Small Relic damage reduced to 50% of Lightning Relic's damage.
    • Added Effect: While casting [Striking], press Left Mouse Button to move all Lightning Relics (including Small Relic) to your position.

    Class Mastery III:
    • Added Effect: Casting [Holy Bolt] leaves an inert Holy Dot in the cast location for 3 seconds.
    • Effect Changed: Casting [Blessed Sign] with an inert Holy Dot in the field will activate the Holy Dot. [Blessed Sign] will be cast by the activated Holy Dot instead with 50% increased cast speed and damage.
    Antiphonary Pool
    • Skill changed: Summons a Holy Dot that gathers enemies towards the center. After a few seconds, the Holy Dot explodes to deal damage. The nearer the enemy is at the center, the more explosion damage is dealt. Atk per hit 1500% (5 total hits). Explosion damage: 100% in 5m; 200% in 3m.
    [Awakened] Grand Cross
    • Projectile size and speed changed (larger and slower like old Inqui v2 GC).
    • Explosion damage increased to 200%.
    • Changed Effect: [Antiphonary Pool] Holy Dot can now be hit by [Grand Cross]. If [Grand Cross] successfully hits, Holy Dot triggers to explode automatically. [Antiphonary Pool] explosion damage increased to 500% regardless of AoE.
    IMO, this pretty much solves much of Saint's innate problems. A) Vulnerability due to long-cast animations, B) Reliance to luck on boss movement, C) Relic vulnerability and issue during nests/raids, D) Underwhelming Awakening Tree and E) Loss of AoE skills to solo-clear dungeons. I know that DPS is an innate problem but I'm not a 'balancing pro' to crunch the numbers and compare it to the other Healer subclasses, so my numbers are just tentative value to retain the current DPS of the aforementioned skills. What I simply did is to provide input on how to solve Saint's gameplay problems.

    Some of these effects and values are OP in PvP (like Relic invulnerability) but I'll leave the discernment on PvP to the PvP players.

    Feedback is highly appreciated. If you want a specific rationale on the changed effects/skills, you can leave a comment.
    Last edited by Skyros; 03-11-2019, 03:38 AM.


    • #4
      Probably change the name of "Great Heal" to previous "Holy Shield" and also cleric voice mentioning "Holy Shield" when the skill is being casted.


      • Lans Vahndreas
        Lans Vahndreas commented
        Editing a comment
        Skyros Hey bruh...! Check my previous comment This is just my suggestion... my suggestion, my suggestion
        And I don't think if they really want to implement this...
        With both effect of current "Great Heal" effect and old "Holy Shield" effect applied, so the heal ability is increased than just heal +regen for few seconds.
        For Clear Debuff status effect sure can be cured with "Cure Relic". Just in case "Cure Relic" on CD and party member on the dangerous situation caused of burning effect/ poison effect debuff, so atleast can additionally heal amount of HP per hit acquired from those burn/ poison effect last for few seconds. If no hit received by players with this heal skill buff, only normal HP regen effect will be received till buff time is ends.

        Or just forget those effect suggestion...........
        I'm hopping they'll improve the skill voice and animation on current Great Heal skill. cz it sounds like normal Heal voice of cleric skill.

      • Skyros
        Skyros commented
        Editing a comment
        Lans Vahndreas No need to be mad bruh lul. I'm just saying that old Holy Shield doesn't heal when damaged by status effects (like Burn and Poison) but only by direct hits.
        If Cure Relic fails, Miracle Relic can remove debuffs. Additionally, all of Saint's heals have a 'heal-per-second' effect due to his Saint's Role Awakening. I'm not saying your suggestion is shiet, but your suggestion is already there. Good day.

      • Lans Vahndreas
        Lans Vahndreas commented
        Editing a comment
        You should able to see my emoticon smiling widely above

        Ah, yah, the old effect of Holy Shield doesn't work on Burn/ Poison effect, but in this my suggestion is revamp that old effect abit to be able to heal during poison/ burn effect too... So, the healing regeneration effect is doubled, "within heal buff applied, player will be healed xx amount every xx seconds last for xx seconds, and if player got hit any attack from enemy's skill/ from area of effect during buff applied will be additionally healed lesser amount of main heal regeneration effect."

        The top of those suggestion I'm just hopping if all of these player's feedback/ suggestions would be delivered to developer's side and consider on it...

    • #5
      my version of a revamp on saint might be too OP so i'll leave at it to other people's discretion to give their own version of the revamp (will edit it out if i get an idea of a proper and balanced out saint)

      My only problem is that the saint needs proper placement in the area where the boss is located before he can even use antiphona pool and blessed sign, and both skill doesn't even deal that much damage compared to most, so its a hassle and like playing chess while using saint


      • Lans Vahndreas
        Lans Vahndreas commented
        Editing a comment
        For DPS problem probably need to boost those Antiphona (Normal & Awakened) & Blessed Sign hit rate for more burst...
        If throw Antiphona on enemy and hit accurately will be attached on enemy's body till skill duration is ends. if it touched the ground 1st will be remain on the ground and gives damage to enemy nearby.

        Really hard for saint to place all relics if the enemy is hyperactive @_@

        And 3 Mini Relics from Awakened Lightning Relic appearance is dropped together immediately after main Lightning Relic touched the ground, and hit area is increased.
        I think only this little boost would be enough to help DPS ing....
        Last edited by Lans Vahndreas; 03-12-2019, 01:13 PM.

      • Mr.Shovels
        Mr.Shovels commented
        Editing a comment
        Blessed sign, antiphona pool and the slow falling of the 3 mini relics and lightning relic is the problem as to why Saint has a really low DPS, i know for sure since i've tried playing saint and its really frustrating, considering its not even comparable to the dps of Light Fury and Physician, i am comparing it to the 2 because they are healers, they aren't sub healers but capable healers now that they've got better heals than from before.