Dark Summoner Update: Boost or Nerf?

[deyvvv]

Talking about this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...u-_ECSB6k/edit

Planning on going back to DN, but seeing as DS's Sadism Pleasure will get its dark elem and fd boost removed, AND Grudge Formation's attack buff removed, I'm having doubts if the upcoming update is a boost or a buff.

Will the boost to the EXes (30 -> 50) and new mechanics for Chain Claw and Phantom Claw Advent enough to compensate the loss of buffs?

Also, I'd like to get my build rated as well: https://dnskillsim.herokuapp.com/kdn...-0-00-----0--0

what do you guys think?

[Xenocho]

Talking about this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...u-_ECSB6k/edit

Planning on going back to DN, but seeing as DS's Sadism Pleasure will get its dark elem and fd boost removed, AND Grudge Formation's attack buff removed, I'm having doubts if the upcoming update is a boost or a buff.

Will the boost to the EXes (30 -> 50) and new mechanics for Chain Claw and Phantom Claw Advent enough to compensate the loss of buffs?

Also, I'd like to get my build rated as well: https://dnskillsim.herokuapp.com/kdn...-0-00-----0--0

what do you guys think?

Apparently you're oblivious to the huge boost to all skill damage that you will think that DS is being nerfed. I also feel you are one of the first person whom publicly expressed that this patch is not a boost.

Reality check: this boost pushed DS to be among the top tiers of DPS classes, on par with Mara and Ray Mechanic.

[Panpeito]

yea its a hefty nerf. we get sadistic healing back, but at what cost...

build looks fine, my only question is why soul eater ultimate? not that it matters if you take it or not, all the important skills were maxed and stuff in the build, just confused

[deyvvv]

Almost losing 60%+ boost in stats that affect your damage output doesnt seem to be enough for the little increase. Guess I'll just go with Dancers instead

Have nothing else to put it in, put it in Soul Eaters ult instead just for the lulz on PvP.

[Chelly]

What the heck are you guys even saying LOL.
this patch is definitely a buff, not a nerf.
The CD of all the core dps skills are reduced, damage is improved by nearly 2x.
Since ds dark elemental is already extremely high, removing the dark buff is not a big change compared to the buffed skill % . Same with the fd.
Overall , i like this change, playing DS is much simpler now and it is not the old Spammy enhanced phantom claw .

[buatkmprt]

Chelly thanks for the build
But just askin for what purpose u take ghost scream but dont need to be cast?
Actually im new with kali, hehe
Thankyouuu

[Chelly]

buatkmprt
Ghost scream is taken for situations where you need mobility, such as if something or dragon breath is chasing you and you lack of skills to fast travel, you can proc ghost scream to trigger dummy ghost.

[buatkmprt]

Chelly thankyou so much for the reply
I gonna try that skill then
Thankyou

[deyvvv]

I'm not oblivious to the boost in broad damage of the skills; in fact, I acknowledged it in my first post.

Maybe I should've been clearer:

I'm confused as to whether or not the boost in the skill damage is enough to compensate the loss of FD and Dark Elem boost from Sadism Pleasure; and for the record, yes, I'm a lazy-ass prick who isn't willing to do the calculations, that's why I'm here in the forums to ask for opinions, jfc

[vjdarktm]

If anything, it's a buff rather than a nerf. The increased in attack power of main skills are to compensate for the FD and Dark Atk. buff removal from Sadism Pleasure and Critical Rate from Deadly Claw (I think that's where the balance is at). The buffs are in cooldown reduction and recovery makes skill rotations smoother rather what it is now where we have to depend on the buff of Phantom's Avenger and Deadly Claw and (if it's just mistranslated) Sadism Pleasure makes HP recovery better rather than just limiting it to 120k and having to rebuff yourself with it to heal again. Also, Phantom Ascendance is an additional damage skill where you can combo it out with Chain Claw EX for more damage (and Shattering Hand if it can be used after it [gonna have to confirm with DNKR DS players for this or Youtube if there are videos of it]).

Am not an expert at DS but it just seems to look like that to me. Better to confirm it from DNKR players or DS players if you know some.

[jasonch]

Don't worry bro, Xenocho tends to be judgmental and harsh when he replies.haha.
On topic: It's rather a buff. And she will be much easier to play too.

[vjdarktm]

Sadism Pleasure healing but only when attacked...

• Sadistic Pleasure
Removed Increase Dark attribute attack, Final Damage and Fixed HP recovery effect.
New Buff: Recovers HP by 1% when attacked. (0.5% PVP)
Cooldown increased.
- From 10 seconds to 90 seconds

We have set Sadism Pleasure to pure recovery skill and HP are recovered but only when attacked by enemy.


(Hope this is just a translation misunderstanding, if not then they should've changed the name to Masochism Pleasure lol)

[Chelly]

This is definitely a translation misunderstanding. It should be a lifesteal effect instead of being attacked.

[GedClack]

LMAO at Masochism Pleasure ~
Yeah I think it's only wrong translation

[nanalouis]

You don't even read the whole thing and then complaining @@
we only lost % FD , % dark they add in the CMI (Take a deeper look before judging anything)
And the dmg compensation is super huge comparing to the lost of FD ~.~ also they add -20% cd in CMI too
Lel, what would you want more @@
Xenocho is absolutly right when he said that

[Aquamakeesha]

Sadism Pleasure goes from 10s CD to 90s cd, and from 120s duration DOWN TO 10s duration. It heals 1% of MAX HPS each hit of main skills (ie. phantom claw, chain claw, revenge hand, rampage claw, phantom's avenger, chaos, deadly claw, shattering hand). Shattering hand gives multiple hit when used in the air, but take awhile to cast. Not really recommended when SP is up, unless ALL other main skills are used up, ofc. Having 2m hps will heal 20k per tick, which is still substantial. Chaos x1, PC x2, CC x2, RH x1, SH x1 and RC x1 is what? 45ish hits? So 45% of hps healed? <---I'm actually asking b/c I'm sleepy atm.

Class mastery 1 no longer gives a bubble per crit of claw skills, but rather all main skills (minus ulti, DClaw and SHand) have a 35% chance of producing a bubble per hit, REGARDLESS of crit. Advent claw now reduces skill CDs by 20%, much like BDs. There is potential to combine needles/PA speed buffs constantly which would allow this CD reduction to take place every 20-30s, possibly sooner. It also only gives 1 bubble on the hit regardless of how many enemies there are.

SP lost it's dark/fd buffs, but CM1 was given +30% dark attack in addition to the 50% int. Combine that with the greatly increased skill dmg %%s and CD reductions ---> it's still an overall boost. A great way to check is running a nest with SP and without SP. For the run w/o SP, you can check the dmg each skill did in the nest with the damage calculator, then just factor in the skill boosts. Not a great way to check considering all other changes, but it'll at least give you an 'idea'.

And I agree, Xenocho knows his stuff. We've chatted many times on SEA forums b4 service transfer. Same with Chelly. Except for the build Chelly posted. Mana isn't important enough to need the passives :P and SHand can become huge airtime skill, along with deadly claw. Oh and PG is ALWAYS fun for the SA boost :P but really that's just my personal preference. IMHO needles doesn't need to be that high.

[Chelly]

Reasoning for not taking PG is because of the contradiction of the new sadism pleasure and phantom avenger. Since ulti has 50% dmg reduction + sp has lifesteal i personally think that pg can be ignored since the def might be a little too insignificant and in addition to so many iframes spells, SA can also be ignored if the new awakening spell is implemented, and in addition, Too many buffs to press might backfire because buff wiped are often and if you cannot keep up with the constant buffing, i would recommend not to take in order to not mess up and end up not using it all.
Mana wise is in the occassion where your team failed a mech in rune hc / touch the walls of rune prison, a little mana regenation would be helpful,
Despair needle maxed because it actually gives decent damage , and a good ds player would keep it 100% uptime for the as and dmg boost, and based on experience, needle would usually appear in top 10 skills after clearing hc.
For bliz claw and the airtime skill, agreed, can be removed due to redundancy, however can still opt for it for idk “animation / skill link wise” LOL.

However there is no must for a skill build so feel free to tweak it however you prefer.

[Aquamakeesha]

The 50% dmg reduction from PA is only during the skill cast, and is not included in the buff T_T Screamer skills also have a much lower mp cost than tink skills, like a lot lower :P but I can definitely agree with your reasoning. And SPleasure will still have a 45s downtime even with the most aggressive players T_T I just like PG for nests/nightmare/dungeon runs b/c then you don't have to dodge and your skills don't get canceled so faster clear imho. Idk maybe it will be overkill and I'll drop it after 7 lvl caps :P haha