Gold sellers topic continues, feel free to give your ideas here

[XDRaV3N]

Day 5 of this discussion thread continues.

The Link to yesterday's daily discussion summary is as above.

Discussion Day 6
I guess the topic has faded away.
But I guess I will leave the topic open, with no conclusions.

For those who wants this topic to continue, or wish to get the developers attention to see some of the points raised here,
You can give the thread a "BUMP" by replying about your opinion on any point on the topic to the thread.
I will try to read and pickup your main points before compiling them into a summary.

For those who makes a living from the game, I am sorry if this thread is going against your ways of earning.
But look at the brighter side, before the "bubble" burst causing the remaining players to be disappointed or leave the game,
I guess you guys would also want to know how is the game's incoming future, and how the players and developers view on the game.

If I would draw a conclusion from this thread,
most likely it would be that, most players actually dont mind on these illegal real money trading/multiple account abuse,
since the number of players who actually voiced out/responded here is quite little compared to the number of forumers who are active in this forum.
So I guess I will leave the topic open, with no conclusions, for those who want changes to the current situation.

Meanwhile waiting for any reply from the developers, here I wish all players Happy Gaming.
I guess in the end most important is, we players to have fun in playing the game we like.
Although sometimes there are some changes that goes wrong and cause players' disappointment,
I guess most players like the game for its action based gameplay and the developers' efforts on balancing and optimising the game for players fun.

[XDRaV3N]

Somehow this thread's number of views went up suddenly, without anyone commenting anything here.
I guess this is an example of what ED should avoid doing, kinda a rush action which caused a massive response,
But at least they are willing to revert back the questionable massive ban before the end of the day.

Relating to the demographics of DNSEA, I guess the sudden announcement from ED does kinda stirred up a massive response from many unique players in the forum.
This shows that most of the players here do own multiple accounts, as they are admitting themselves in the forum.
I guess ED's next move most likely will take this into consideration, and this would most likely show ED's view on the matter.

Regarding the removal of RH benefits, I guess the RH benefits are about to be removed in the next patch based on what other players discussed on KDN patches.

[launcelot]

I'd like to know if that massive ban has indeed affect the bots. As some posts have claimed, advertising spam bots are still in the game, therefore I assume that gold generating bots were the ones being targetted and not all sorts of bots.

Meanwhile, when it comes to multiple accounts, many legit players indeed have it and maintain it to a certain extent. But it does not compare to a bot factory churned out with hundreds of accounts.

[XDRaV3N]

Yea I guess the "two-step verification" in DiscussionDay6, might still be a more better method in reducing the bot factories.
Meanwhile it might be more acceptable to players as it does not fully punished legit players who owns multiple accounts to a certain extent.
It also might help with "the lack of account security" problem that exist currently.

For the massive ban yesterday, I guess ED is trying to announce their stand/view to go against these issues but made a bad move with it.
Probably they have now revert all changes they made yesterday except for the removal of RH benefits.
Looking forward to how might ED make their next move. But I guess we should give them some time to plan before rushing into actions.

I probably will wait for a few more replies from others before compiling the points into a summary.

[Broker]

Quite amazing in a topic like these, there are RMT players in this forum are giving opinions/replies in this topic along with the other ones. Quite quite amazed

[Xenocho]

Lol wut? If you are not interested in the discussion you might as well not post, since we are all trying to have a constructive discussion here?

Motives? Back out if found out? LOL.

I don't mind you calling me whatever you want, it doesn't affect me at all anyway.

Btw I'm not sure if this is even considered a "meeting" =.=

[XDRaV3N]

Broker I am trying to pickup the point you are trying to bring up.
Are you implying that there are real money trading for the rune wrath event previously?
If yes, I will add them to the discussion summary later.
Try not to be ambiguous in your comments, and probably get straight to the point you want to raise.
There is no need to worry further since you are already using a newly made forum name.

[launcelot]

???

Is this a catch the crook thread?

[XDRaV3N]

Discussion Day 6

The Link to the previous discussion summary is as above.

Discussion Part 7
The following points has been raised.

- did the massive ban has indeed affect the bots?
- some posts have claimed, advertising spam bots are still in the game.
- gold generating bots were the ones being targetted and not all sorts of bots.
- the sudden announcement from ED does kinda stirred up a massive response from many unique players in the forum.
- many legit players indeed have multiple accounts and maintain it to a certain extent.
- but it does not compare to a bot factory churned out with hundreds of accounts.

Previously proposed solution continues
- "two-step verification" in DiscussionDay6, might still be a more better method in reducing the bot factories.
- it might be more acceptable to players as it does not fully punished legit players who owns multiple accounts to a certain extent.
- it might help with "the lack of account security" problem that exist currently.

Today's points continues
- there are real money trading for the selling of rune wrath services.
- based on some posts in other threads, some players do think such rune wrath services are against the rules, and are deemed "cheaters".
- real money trading aspect of it, probably would be illegal but the services rendered by itself is questionable, depending on how ED view on it.

Players' concern
- players are looking forward to how might ED make their next move considering many players do own multiple accounts
- but they should be given some time to plan before rushing into actions.
- players question how legal are rune wrath services.
- players want to know how ED view on this matter.

No other possible solutions was proposed.

But some players in other thread indicate that they want ED to trace any gold transfers and hopes that those gold buyers are banned as well.
I guess players can give some views on this and what kind of potential effect it could bring.

[XDRaV3N]

Seems like the previous OP is back and has started another fireburning thread.
Do note that I do not agree with his way of flamebaiting other players to get attention, like what happened in the previous thread.
Because this kills the thread's original topic while players are burning each other.
I prefer to see what players view on the matter from both point of view, as the main objective is we want to know the community consensus view as a whole.
The previous OP says that we are just keyboard warriors with talks but no actions made,
Well I don't deny that I am a keyboard warrior, but I don't see how the things he does, gives a better solution either.

[XDRaV3N]

Seems like the fireburning thread has been closed before I get a chance to reply in the thread.
Most probably the topic will die with it, as I do see a drop in number of views in this thread.
Like I say previously in Discussion Day 6, I guess I will leave the topic open for those who want changes to the current situation.

[XDRaV3N]

DiscussionPart7

The Link to the previous discussion summary is as above.

Discussion Part 8
Based on some posts in other threads, the following points were raised.

- so far there is no strong evidence that gold sellers have been banned/dealt with.
- most likely only players who abused the RH system that got banned.
- it seems ED might have viewed the RH system as an exploit, deviating the feature from it's original purpose (attracting back players who had already quit).
- players who "exploit" might be treated as an abuser.
- however, owning multiple accounts is a bannable offense to begin with.
- this goes back to the point "how might ED make their next move considering many players do own multiple accounts".
- RH gold pouch duplication might be the core reason it is being removed.
- if there is unlimited gold pouch that 100 players are opening 24 hours a day, how much gold would that generate? Won't that destroy the economy?
- key note: unlimited gold pouch.
- do note that the dark cubes farm in theme park are also counted as an exploit/abuse.
- if ED have the records about the players who did this, they might ban these players as they are considered exploiting/abusing like what happened with the RH system.

Previous points continue
- "some players in other thread indicate that they want ED to trace any gold transfers and hopes that those gold buyers are banned as well."
- players indicated that they have previously lend gold to some friends.
- there will be some misleading information since there might be no conversation in-game. (might be verbally or via Discord chat etc)

- "based on some posts in other threads, some players do think such rune wrath services are against the rules, and are deemed "cheaters"."
- ED might have already included some changes that discourages these services in the recent KDN patch.
- ED have removed the waiting time after clearing nests, "please clear your inventory ...".
- but so far no players has been banned due to boosting/carrying other players in nests, even if they repeatly does it with/without the use of tickets.

Players' concern
- players are looking forward to how might ED make their next move as they are unsure how ED looks at these matters.
- players worry that ED might ban players who previously lend gold to some friends.
- players worry that ED might ban players who farmed dark cubes in theme park as ED might view it as an exploit/abuse.

No other possible solutions was proposed.

Some players do points that ED should remove such features that might lead to players exploit/abuse, instead of punishing them with a perma ban.
Such features include, the RH system, trading of gold UI/mailing of gold, dark cubes farming in theme park, rune wrath services.

Note that these points are from posts from other threads, as not many players are replying here.
Credits are to those who raised these points.

[Vaddix]

Im kinda impressed with forumers like XDRaV3N for going thru alot of trouble making these wall of texts which I assume most people including ED staffs themselves would NOT bother to read.

[XDRaV3N]

Actually these are mostly just compilation/copypaste from the points raised by the other players. Probably credits should be given to them instead.
As for whether ED staff read or not, it does seem that they do things with less care about player's input, based on how much we been trying to communicate with them.
I guess only way for us to know is when a GM/someone from the ED side actually replies to the thread.
Well, looking from another point of view, I guess this thread will act as a record summary, where players have given their points, while waiting for their responses.

[launcelot]

From your gathered info regarding other players opinions regarding paid service,here's a free thought.


This game is said to be an MMORPG where the concept of gameplay is on player to player interaction. Any interaction in the game is said to be a culmination and establishing a societal world where one hopes to gain an advantage/profit from the effects of interacting with other players. Any player hopes to gain either the following: friends, "significant others", bartered goods, gold, service. It is, in a sense, a free world.


If you think about it that way, we cannot say that someone who paid a group of players for an RuDN service as having an unfair advantage when the player who fully paid the service in gold. And as such, paying a total stranger for a dungeon boost falls under the same "servicing" category. Should we say that a low levelled character is having an unfair advantage when he wants easy runs with someone who can help him finish the runs?


The root cause of paid service is Player to Player trading which is an innate and natural form of interaction.


Without trading, you are forced to mine your own gold. Who could have the highest gold in the game? The player who is playing the longest and grinding the longest can have all the benefits of being able to afford everything. The new players will always stay at the bottom and will struggle to gain ground with the older players. Being so, some players will not like that idea and will decide that the game is not for them and move on to another game.


So saying that paid service is unfair? I don't think so.


What the game lacks is a contract system where a player, should he wish to engage in trading, must form a contract with another player. The contract comes as a quest for any player. If the quest is fulfilled, the other party closes the deal by closing the quest. If the quest is cancelled, money is returned. This usually works for service that requires payment in gold.

Contract system won't be necessary if ALL items in the game is tradable. Unfortunately there are some that are binded to character and therefore the need to perform a certain activity per item farmed.

[launcelot]

That’s the thing. I do not associate myself with what is the general accepted norms in any forum. My take on the matter will always be what the game publisher says and puts their foot on what will be followed. Everything that was said here is always kept with an open mind at best.

if anyone thinks I’m guilty in siding with anyone, you’re free to express it out. How i see it is how i play it in the game.

[launcelot]

Add on: If the contract system is implemented, player to player trading can be turned off. Also there is no need to keep a town named Saint Haven and everything will be just menus full of contracts,TH and NPC tabs. Essentially saving the game several megabytes of model data and NPC info.

A contract system also helps to police service scamming and help solidify a well established servicing system.

But the effect will be that, no one will be able to see you and how you look in your spazzy new costume. Or Talk to you casually. or Enjoy the Academics frolick around screaming Anya and Annyeong. Which ruins the game as a free roaming free world environment.

[XDRaV3N]

Yea probably the current contract system, ie the trading UI, is kinda too broad where they let off their duty to monitor any transactions performed.
If a better contract system is created, probably the system could reduce the number of scam cases that a GM/customer service need to monitor/handle.
I guess in another way, the system also applies on improving the current way of party formation, as most of our players now still only resort to CH1 to search for a party.
Most likely they would not remove Saint Haven completely, but with a well made contract system, I think they can reduce the number of town maps/unnecessary instances in the game,
since developers have made the game to be more dungeon/nest based and focus more on the end game/max level.
Most players that still stayed in this game, are mostly because of nostalgic reasons and/or they dont have the specs needed to play the current open world games which demands lots of graphics computing.
So far I do see developers are trying to satisfy the current population needs, by optimising the graphics option, reducing the visibility of own skills etc.
There are some previous ideas from players, where they hope the GTS can be placed in all the towns, but I guess the developers are trying to cut cost and kinda scrap off the idea.
With low cost in mind, reducing the number of scam cases, might allow the GM's and/or developers to focus their work time into further development instead.
Note: trying to relate this to the trading UI improvements/changes.
As for your idea of contract service, I guess they could specify what kind of quest/service can be contracted with other players.
This would show the developers' stand on what kind of service are allowed/disallowed in the game, therefore reducing any confusion/disagreements among players.

Add on: These disagreements among players probably will not arise if all players agree MMORPG games should be a free world.
I guess some players prefer games which regulates all player to player interactions, thus causing the disagreements.

[XDRaV3N]

Seems like someone started a topic questioning ED's terms and conditions.
I guess this shows how unclear is ED's stand on certain matters, especially after the removal of the DNP system.
I do see some good points raised there, so I guess I will leave the link to the thread here.

http://forum.dragonnest.com/forum/se...and-conditions

However, I think the person we should seek for replies would be those from ED's side like GM's/PM Tasha, instead of the moderators.
Note that the current moderators do not have a say on how ED does things because they also rely on sites news just as the regular users to get their initial information.
But it would be good if the moderators could help to promote some of the questions raised to the developers ie the new publisher.

[XDRaV3N]

Based on the latest Developer K's note for Dec'17, it seems calypse gear server storage cash item will be available to KDN around next year.
This would give an advantage to cash users without directly affecting the Trading House economy, and also answers cash players' concerns on the cash updates in the future.
Meanwhile with the introduction of Jelly Garden, farming of jellies like the gold dungeon, will be available to non-cash players to farm their own jellies.
Regarding the possibility of a new system for party recruitment, it does seems the Gear Core rating system, would be helpful to filter out/organise nest parties.
I guess we shall wait for the coming new updates, to further see ED's directions on the game.
Kinda waiting for some news given by the developers in the Tasha Meet and Greet event. It seems a lot of new updates are hinted in the event.

[launcelot]

Just a side note. This article should have been cited as good reference yet ED goes out to hold an event about gathering info on bots when a treasure trove of ideas regarding them is closely tied with some of the current game mechanics work.

Dear ED, please take note here.

[Xenocho]

@gpals0623

[BananaCredits]

Just a noob that doesn't understand economy, since that enhancement costs are rather fixed, hence a controlled inflation would help players to earn the gold to enhance their gears by selling the items at a higher price, so isn't that this is actually a good thing?
PS: aware of the word "controlled", not "skyrocket inflation".
Just In case: am not RMT supporter.