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  • Dungeon Remaster is great but can be better

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    Also, yes, I'm calling it "Dungeon Remaster" because it's mainly focused on dungeons. Fite me.
    -Short Answer-

    I love the Dungeon Remaster but it could be better off if we go back to DN's roots.



    -Long Answer-






    The new implementation of the dungeon remaster is a God sent for players who are sick of seeing the same dungeons everyday. Along with this is the new mission bulletin board (with its corresponding points and store), that further gives you options on venturing out Saint Haven and re-experiencing the entirety of Lagendia's dungeons, because you don't 1-shot the enemies. However, there are issues that I believe stems from this new implementation and they are the following:

    (1) The sudden difficulty spike from Abyss to LB-01 and onwards;
    (2) The dungeon's that do not sync well with the new difficulties that ED implemented;
    (3) The lack of incentive/rewards to pursue higher difficulties in dungeons; and
    (4) The absence of variety that makes each dungeon have a purpose.


    -#1: Difficulty Spike-








    It isn't new that Dragon Nest always had a problem with its sudden increase of a mob's HP and damage. This dates back at 40 cap, in which the difference between Master and Abyss is apparent. Within the current cap and dungeon remaster, you can damage/kill a mob in Abyss with your kicks but can barely make a dent in LB-01. This is just a single level step-up but the scaling of difficulty is taking 2 steps further. Whoever does the difficulty testing in Dragon Nest needs to be replaced because the game is basically a min-max and no-inbetween as of now. It's either they're ridiculously easy or near impossibly hard.

    Balancing difficulty and fun has always been an issue in every games and will always be an issue but, right now, there's just a big gap between the difficulty levels. Personally, the gap is notably present in:

    (A) Abyss to LB-01;
    (B) LB-03 to LB-04; and
    (C) LB 06 to LB-07
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    mfw I want to test out the higher difficulties but you're just a mere casual who's running a full tank Guardian all alone



    -#2: Dungeon Syncing-







    Whilst the dungeons have a new form of experience to them with the added option to increase difficulty, there are just some old dungeons that did not sync well with the difficulty increase from the dungeon remaster. A good sample would be from Dark Overlord Keep's Gargoyle's boss. Whilst my dungeon run was fun, it started to become a slog when I hit the boss. The boss has a mechanic where it will harden up and begin to absorb all you attacks with 1 damage (Irregardless of equipment) and continue to do so until you either (1) Break his Super Armor or (2) Wait for him to cancel his stance. The thing is, playing this dungeon in higher difficulties makes his Super Armor God-Tier, so you have no other option but to wait it out (Which is forever).

    I can only imagine what it would be like for those guardian gargoyle's who heal themselves whenever they get into this stance. That must be hell.
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    Look at this dude's smug ass look, fully knowing he's got a cheat card.



    -#3: Rewards in higher difficulties are shit-







    All you get in higher difficulties is an increase of points (Dungeon, Nest, Nightmare, and if you get lucky, the BST points). The trade off of playing an additional 15 minutes v.s receiving an extra +100 points is NOT worth it. Give the players a better incentive in playing at higher difficulties other than dungeon points or making the experience harder. Personally, I'm already happy that I'm able to play the lower level dungeons without having to be Thanos but at least give us something worthwhile our time (The Mission board is RNG based, so good luck getting the dungeon you want lmao).
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    To be fair though, I did enjoy myself a lot but jeezus fuck, 31 minutes just for this much points.



    -#4: Variety is dead-







    Dungeons used to have an identity and a purpose, where certain items would drop within a certain probability and you would see people form parties or run these dungeons to hunt down these items to craft something. Whilst DN has had introduced quality of life improvements over the years (e.g: Increasing the amount you can hold from 10 to 20 to 50 to 100, and now to 1000. God bless you whoever proposed this), they have also simplified the game too much that it's sort of dumbed down.

    Whilst the new Dungeon Remaster does give me enjoyment to run different dungeons, it does not give me a reason to run them. Give dungeons an identity and a purpose and this will lead to players having a goal, instead of just running them for some basic points.
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    I just want these colorful gems back man (Codes can come back too but I'm okay with Jades)



    -Suggestions-








    (1) Increase the amount of difficulty levels and use this to spread out the mob's HP/Damage, so we can get an even distribution of where we want to stay and not have to choose between "too ez" or "go fuck yourself". That and play test your damn difficulties;

    (2) Whilst not that of a higher priority, we'll need to definitely revisit some old dungeons and see if they'll work well with the higher LB difficulties and check whether the mechanics won't get in the way. I'm guessing ED just implemented a value to increase a mobs HP and Damage, depending on the difficulty, and didn't look into each dungeon's mechanics. This could lead to some fuckery;

    (3) Give us something more than points that motivates me to work my ass off for an extra 10 minutes. Hell, even an increase of gold at this point is okay because of how I need them (I've already completed all my quests so stop telling me to run them lmao); and

    (4) Bring back the variety in this game and give dungeons a purpose. Seriously. A dungeon shouldn't just be a place where a player should use to level up (Although, some dungeons specialize in that regard). Including variety of items in the game would definitely help give you options of which dungeon should drop which. Bring back the Rubies/Sapphire/Topaz/Obsidian gems (They're colorful okay) so there's a good reason why we're running these dungeons in the first place. Have them drop off at different rates (Depending on the difficulty) in different dungeons so they can have purpose.


    -Conclusion-








    All in all, the World Remaster is a great implementation that I'm happy was put in the game but there's definitely more to be improved and introduced. Also, the original BGM for Calderock Village is just orgasmic. Bless you ED.


    What do you guys think? I'd love to hear your thoughts about it. Personally, I just want them to bring back the variety in the game, so each dungeon can have their own purpose (e.g: Explosion Forest having that Dragon Shard crafting material). I think if DN were to go back to its roots (Whilst keeping the quality of life improvements over the years), the game would be better off.
    Last edited by GlassShard; 03-21-2019, 07:07 AM.

  • #2
    lab 9 and 10... the damage increase is like x10 :3

    i spam it just for pet exp... 5runs lab 9 for lvl50 to 51 pet (around 2levels at 50+ for 1500ftg) worth it if u just want the exp...

    lab 9-old garden

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    lab 11-under garden
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    dont have screen shot for seabed cave.. got no more ftg.. i run that the fastest.. depends on you where u want to spam

    Comment


    • #3
      Interesting topic and POV.

      Personally, the difficulties spikes comes after LB-08, where below that is literally one-shot for mobs and quite easy for boss also. However, after that level I feel the difficulties increases exponentially, which is different that your experience. Both of us doesnt has any conclusive data to support each other anyway.

      Reward wise, yes it is kinda depressing for having x10 more difficult but just getting 100 more points, where you just get like 1.1k dungeon points at LB-11. Definitely needs a boost.

      I strongly disagree on the variety part. That much of jewels costs different class differently, which I take it as a class discrimination. Good memory of warrior and archer being expensive AF but cleric is dirt cheap LMAO. Giving dungeon an identity is important, but not in this way.
      "Internet is full of trolls and idiots."
      - Albert Einstein

      Mail me gold to IGN: Scimitarry

      Comment


      • #4
        I was also confused as to why name their update "World Remaster" from which is nothing much has changed, i was expecting all the other areas would be different, saint haven having a different town design, stage areas before entering a dungeon would also be different, or rather the dungeons would be different in topography, portal location etc etc.

        World Remaster is something people use pertaining to a major change on many different aspects of their game including graphics, locations, major changes in certain areas, removal of unnecessary land masses and such on a town, village or city and stuff like that, might as well call it "Labyrinth Remaster" since the Labyrinth level difficulty changed not only in the dungeons but for nests as well because of the absurd damage enemy boss deals to players, the mechanics on certain nests such as ABN's Archbishop's warping will suck in players and the moment you don't get a distance from the middle of that area you're not gonna escape death and you will surely die in an instant, as well as certain mechs on manticore, and daidalos nest are too difficult for most newbies to actually learn beforehand without dying several times, much better if they were to scale it down just a little bit.

        The Remake of the low level dungeons was a good move from the developers, this will let other players at ease to do their main quest and earn up those crystal points using their main without worrying about wasting their FTG considering all the side quests and the main quest rewards are revamped and improved, with the reward of an enhancement protection magic jelly and lebrium points, as well as some other necessities to help newbies on their adventure, people would be inspired to actually complete their main quest using their most favorite characters without worrying about wasting their FTG on dungeons that would yield no reward for them, because of the new implementation of the Labyrinth difficulty system on dungeons, any max level character can be challenged whilst getting good rewards and doing their main and side quests at the same time.

        Missions that you get from the Mission Bulletin Board Quest have been expanded, several other missions are available ranging from doing dungeons from low level areas, depending on the player's selection if he or she wants to acquire quests from any part of the world or just dungeons accessible in saint haven.

        All in all i like some parts of the update, and i dislike most of it, other than that it's still good enough for something new to come up in the game for once in a while.

        Comment


        • #5

          Originally posted by acevanlee View Post
          lab 9 and 10... the damage increase is like x10 :3

          i spam it just for pet exp... 5runs lab 9 for lvl50 to 51 pet (around 2levels at 50+ for 1500ftg) worth it if u just want the exp...

          lab 9-old garden

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          lab 11-under garden
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          dont have screen shot for seabed cave.. got no more ftg.. i run that the fastest.. depends on you where u want to spam
          By 10 times?!

          You mean to tell me I have to spend an extra 30 minutes, have to fight enemies that could probably Saitama me, and all I get is a mere increase in points? That blows man.

          Originally posted by BananaCredits View Post
          Interesting topic and POV.

          Personally, the difficulties spikes comes after LB-08, where below that is literally one-shot for mobs and quite easy for boss also. However, after that level I feel the difficulties increases exponentially, which is different that your experience. Both of us doesnt has any conclusive data to support each other anyway.

          Reward wise, yes it is kinda depressing for having x10 more difficult but just getting 100 more points, where you just get like 1.1k dungeon points at LB-11. Definitely needs a boost.

          I strongly disagree on the variety part. That much of jewels costs different class differently, which I take it as a class discrimination. Good memory of warrior and archer being expensive AF but cleric is dirt cheap LMAO. Giving dungeon an identity is important, but not in this way.
          I'd love to conduct more data but my gear doesn't allow me to run the higher difficulties without having to invest 1-2 hours for every 2 dungeons lmao.

          Also, regarding the jewels costing more for certain classes, I believe that this wouldn't be the case in the current cap. Back then, each class actually had a role that specifically catered to that responsibility (Warriors being main DPS, Clerics being healers/tankers, Archer's being supportive DPS, and Sorceress being glass cannons). I'd say that the reason why Ruby was the most expensive was because the population of Warrior's were the highest (Since you can basically play the game on your own without relying on other's), so demand was quite high for them. The opposite can be said for Topaz, being the cheapest, since Cleric's weren't a popular option due to them relying on a decent party to finish abyss dungeons.

          The state of our classes right now is that everyone can solo a dungeon (to an extent), so there shouldn't be that much of a difference between demand for the classes, since the player's choose the class they prefer to play rather than choose a class that has the capability to finish a dungeon. That's just my 2 cents.

          Originally posted by Mr.Shovels View Post
          I was also confused as to why name their update "World Remaster" from which is nothing much has changed, i was expecting all the other areas would be different, saint haven having a different town design, stage areas before entering a dungeon would also be different, or rather the dungeons would be different in topography, portal location etc etc.

          World Remaster is something people use pertaining to a major change on many different aspects of their game including graphics, locations, major changes in certain areas, removal of unnecessary land masses and such on a town, village or city and stuff like that, might as well call it "Labyrinth Remaster" since the Labyrinth level difficulty changed not only in the dungeons but for nests as well because of the absurd damage enemy boss deals to players, the mechanics on certain nests such as ABN's Archbishop's warping will suck in players and the moment you don't get a distance from the middle of that area you're not gonna escape death and you will surely die in an instant, as well as certain mechs on manticore, and daidalos nest are too difficult for most newbies to actually learn beforehand without dying several times, much better if they were to scale it down just a little bit.

          The Remake of the low level dungeons was a good move from the developers, this will let other players at ease to do their main quest and earn up those crystal points using their main without worrying about wasting their FTG considering all the side quests and the main quest rewards are revamped and improved, with the reward of an enhancement protection magic jelly and lebrium points, as well as some other necessities to help newbies on their adventure, people would be inspired to actually complete their main quest using their most favorite characters without worrying about wasting their FTG on dungeons that would yield no reward for them, because of the new implementation of the Labyrinth difficulty system on dungeons, any max level character can be challenged whilst getting good rewards and doing their main and side quests at the same time.

          Missions that you get from the Mission Bulletin Board Quest have been expanded, several other missions are available ranging from doing dungeons from low level areas, depending on the player's selection if he or she wants to acquire quests from any part of the world or just dungeons accessible in saint haven.

          All in all i like some parts of the update, and i dislike most of it, other than that it's still good enough for something new to come up in the game for once in a while.
          I have not tried entering nests yet (I have a certain disdain towards running nests because there are certain mechanics that's too painful in the ass to run solo) but, from the feedback that I heard, the damage scaling is at unreasonable levels.

          Whilst I like the idea of rewarding player's for doing the main quest (Plus, it's an incentive to read up the lore, which is pretty good), there has got to be other options. I've already finished all my quest (Both Main and Side) and I don't feel like making a new character at all. It just rubs me off the wrong way that people who took the time and effort to play the main quest can't have jack shit that new player's are getting now (This is just a personal bias of mine by the way, don't take it as an objective argument).

          Although, one thing I'd love to see is the Mission Bulletin Board to have a system that allows you to party up with people having similar missions. As of the moment, I'd love to run with my brother and do missions but none of our missions are the same (Which is fine, considering the missions are purely RNG based. . .or so I hope) but I'd love to see a party system implemented, which you can opt to find a random party to run the said mission (Just like with STS).

          Comment


          • GlassShard
            GlassShard commented
            Editing a comment
            There's a lot of stuff in your comment that involves a lot of things within the game that I can't respond to every one of them in full detail. However, I still believe the different jewels to actually do more good than harm if it were implemented. The issue of class discrimination isn't the fault of the jewels but the root cause is how DN has lost its RPG aspect (e.g: Tanks) and its way of balancing characters (e.g: Defensio RIP). If we actually solve the core issue of bringing back the necessity of certain roles within the game, there would be a lot of improvements and implementations that would happen and can happen.

            As of the moment, with regards to raids and nests, it is a shame that the only use for tanks and supports are in the exploration stages, which, afterwards, a full DPS team is much more sought out for due to faster clearing time (That's fine but their needs to be a higher risk if ever a full DPS party were to be formed and not just allow them to faceroll the entire thing). Again, I think majority of the issues you stated just stems from the fact that DN has lost its roots in the RPG genre. Hell, as a full tank, I can even do decent damage (Not complaining but it just showcases that my role as a tank isn't exactly prominent).

            For feedbacking, it's a shame but ED will most likely only listen to KDN feedback rather than us.

          • Mr.Shovels
            Mr.Shovels commented
            Editing a comment
            Yes that's what i've been thinking... the variety of roles with a purpose isn't actually present in many different runs but only healers and dps class, the way developers are shaping the game is into something that isn't RPG but is called "RPG" with its self entitlement but with no doubt not something that really is one, but because this is a korean made game i doubt it will be a one good RPG, the west and japan are still the ones that makes REAL RPG but most of it are single player games on a different platform and not an MMO, rather disappointing but let's face it, DN isn't an RPG anymore, there's no "ROLE" in their game only "PLAYING GAME" so it should be an MMOPG game rather.

            If the Developers want the support of the community they should learn to actually communicate with them rather than sucking it up on all the complaints by many players who are suffering in class discrimination because of their class with bugs on their skills, too low of a dps, and Flurry is always the No.1 class to have the highest possible dps which the darn developers not doing anything, there shouldn't be any favorable class in the game anyways with the best possible dps, it should all be just base on gear instead so everyone can play their favorite class, and that's the only essence that is keeping the game alive and fun from before now they've ruined it.

            There's a lot of potential in this game, and i'm gonna keep saying it again and again but these bunch are just killing the game for what money they can get from it.

            Even their eye gacha event is just keeps getting worst and worst on the reward

          • GlassShard
            GlassShard commented
            Editing a comment
            Mr.Shovels Which is a shame since DN has one of the best combat mechanics I've ever gotten my hands on (Since it's free). If I had to summarize it: DN is a game with a God-Tier combat system but a shit tier content progression. It's too bad that DN has lost it's core identity of being an RPG by replacing it with KOS (Kill on Sight) mechanics. Whilst understandable, it does make the game boring for me and the community stale with the lack of party compositions and community interactions.

            Anyway, talking about it here won't bring any fruit. I'm in the middle of making a survey right now so we can all have a benchmark of how DN SEA is doing as of today.

        • #6
          a couple of those issue were solved or mitigated in the last patch from KDN aka Red Palace Update. There is a lot of QOL in that update.
          it is not like money can't buy happiness, it is that money can't cure saltiness

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by Noctaelius View Post
            a couple of those issue were solved or mitigated in the last patch from KDN aka Red Palace Update. There is a lot of QOL in that update.
            That's great to hear.

            The dungeon remaster is a good thing and I hope it continues to improve.

            Comment


            • #8
              DN is just now sh*t because even when you are disconnected and haven't started your dungeon run you're gonna pay a hefty repair price for that. What???? If you want us players to quit then just say so in our face!

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by DNMemoria View Post
                DN is just now sh*t because even when you are disconnected and haven't started your dungeon run you're gonna pay a hefty repair price for that. What???? If you want us players to quit then just say so in our face!
                Fortunately, that's going to get patched and penalizing players for disconnecting or leaving would be gone. Whilst the repair fee for dying is still questionable (and I'd rather just have no fee's at all), it's a step in the right direction at least.

                I think this comment would fit better in the Repair Fee thread lmao.

                Comment


                • #10
                  This patch eased plenty of problems that made DN unplayable and so i disagree with most of what you had said (oof internet)
                  1. Difficulty Spike
                    (1) It gives more room for geared players not to kos we all know thats boring af (2) Adding more floors to "fix" the scaling would make it too close to nests
                  2. Dungeon Syncing
                    I did not quite get this part because i never had problems (i did my fare share of running dungeons leveling my nospec machina this patch), "you either Break his Super Armor or Wait for him to cancel his stance" sounds to me you did not like the boss's mecha i kinda think that's a personal problem he he he
                  3. Rewards in higher difficulties are shit
                    I believe dn had always been grindy (flashback DNreborn dev notes) I had just returned ingame lastmonth from a 4month hiatus and realized dn is much more rewarding now. "shit" rewards hmmm idk it is good enough for me considering we use ftg to run contents now. For dungeons though i think its so-so way of farming
                  4. Variety is dead
                    (1) dungeons having specific loot is messy imo, that just forces players to again spam specific dungeons for loots. It doesnt make sense considering this patch served to give useless content some purpose (points serves as a purpose yaaa). (2) These mats created huge disparity between jobs (3) codes where better than jades imo
                  I think the part that should be fixed is that the game is still too grindy... it needs more "Fission maze/Fission core" kind of content. hehehehe

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