Class heraldry

[Looking4bots]

assuming your skill got a CD skill plate, which one is more better to use. the 20% CD or the 57% atk from ancient heraldry?

[Mr.Shovels]

Depending on which skill does the Goddess heraldry (Ancient) enhances it.

Damage enhancement on skill heraldry yields more benefit to skills with a higher damage value, skills with less damage value benefits more on cooldown enhancements towards skill heraldry.

Care to mention which skill heraldry are you talking about? Or this is just a general question?

[BananaCredits]

1. The CD from skill heraldy and BMJ is not stacked additionally but multiple, therefore with +10 BMJ the outbreak should have 3.84s CD.

2. Damage plate is not good anymore in current patches, since the skill damage addition is added into FD% and the BMJ enhanced%. Let says you have 100% FD and +10 BMJ, the diminished returned you will actually get from 57% goddess plate is 57% / 400% = 14.25%. Meanwhile for CD, it is a pure 20% return since it is stacked by multiplication.

3. You had mentioned that you arent gonna use Outbreak all the time, since there is time you need to dodge, heal, etc. Yes it is true, but I would says in current raids, you are not going to just running around and heal and DPS occasionally (Yes I use LF for raids and stuff included gust dragon). Instead, I had always spammed my skills until I would out of DPS skills. Also, we had Unseen Art which triggered by skill count, therefore with CD plate it can be triggered as much as possible and dealing even more damage, considering it actually deals more than my non-BMJ Outbreak.

4. I dont get your last sentence. DPS is counted by `damage dealt over time`.

[Mr.Shovels]

I've asked someone from another guild that i know who is an LF main and he stated that CD skill heraldry gives more advantage than the regular Damage skill heraldry, but he told me and i agreed to it that once you get a high grade goddess heraldry that has an above 100% damage increase, it would be more worth it and beneficial than the lower cooldown provided with the 20% CD reduction on the regular cd skill heraldry.

Its not really optional for some to choose a 20% cd reduction skill heraldry on their own class because not every character has that and they can only choose between damage, mana recovery or maybe to some action speed.

1. Yeah, we've discussed about it and since no one in my guild nor players i know have ever succeeded on getting a +10 skill jade we never knew it was only additive and only applies the cd reduction over to the previous bonus applied (Skill heraldry Outbreak 20% cd = 4.8 > BMJ +10 20% cd = 3.84%)

4. What i mean is having less CD means you can frequently use the skill, meaning you can deal more damage overtime compared when using a Damage skill heraldry (since you've mentioned the diminishing returns) while using an actual Damage skill heraldry the damage boost only provides significant values if the values where higher than what you've mentioned (57% damage increase, meaning if the values were higher than that the boost would be improved to a further value than 14.25% with your calculations on the dividing of the Goddess Heraldry and BMJ enhancement)

There seems to be a conflict on both out calculations because you keep saying the skill damage addition is added into FD and including the BMJ enhancement, why do you keep saying that if the purpose of FD is only to increase the base damage you deal depending on the percentage of your FD value on your character stats? Do you mean something else by that? this calculation seems to be way off from my own, it doesn't really explain anything other than that, and from what i can tell diminishing returns should only apply to damage multipliers (which are character stats such as elemental attack , attack power values and if any of those are not balanced on both values [e.g. attack power is relatively lower than it should be but your elemental attack is higher])

Is there some source code some people found in the game files that explains how it all works or this is all just from pure experiments and tests?

I've already read about Xenocho's mini guide on damage calculations and understand the Diminishing Return Law in this game.

From all i could understand is that Skill heraldry, BMJs skill damage enhancements are values improved upon the damage of the skill itself, but they do not appear on the skill description itself even if you are equipped with said items (but on equipping a CD Skill heraldry, the cooldown value changes and you can see the reduced cooldown of that skill) from what i can assume on things, it is either discreetly changed hidden from the skill description (because of factors to add 1 SP to skills) or the base damage you deal with the said skill is multiplied by the bonus factors of all the damage enhancements provided by other sources such as Skill Heraldry and BMJ, WHAT i cannot understand is how it is calculated, does both improve the base damage of the skill? like 57% = total value from skill damage + BMJ total value from skill damage (meaning they separately improve the base damage of the skill, and is combined on an overall damage meaning it is additive [i know that stacking is where values from previously added bonus applied is improved further by another source, meaning values improved by the BMJ can still be improved by the Skill heraldry, and that is OP, or it could also be the values improved by the Skill Heraldry is further improved by the BMJ's which eitherway is still OP] that is why i am avoiding that assumption because it is too much of a boost)

Diminishing returns doesn't entirely affect both my assumptive calculations, but if your own calculation is right, then it will be affected by Diminishing Returns and CD skill heraldry is way better than having to equip a mediocore level of Skill heraldry.

Apology for letting you read a whole lot

[BananaCredits]

1. Well I already mentioned about a treshold damage% from goddess plate that would surpass 20% CD plate in my older comment. You are right on that one, tho I had forgot the exact value but it is over 100%.

2. It is pure testings from some CDN and DNSEA peeps, that the heraldy damage% and skill jade enhancement% is added together with FD% (of course only when you are using the skill).

3. "why do you keep saying that if the purpose of FD is only to increase the base damage you deal depending on the percentage of your FD value on your character stats?". Thats the entire purpose of FD as a damage multiplier, to add your damage, which also suffers diminishing returns. People had always been talking about "balancing your atk% and elem%", but the reason why only that 2 out of many multipliers had been discussed is due to the fact that other multipliers (e.g. FD, elem, critical, etc.) has a cap, which in current meta most geared peeps capped them, leaving atk% and elem% that has no cap as the balancing tools.

I believe Xenocho had explained the concept of diminishing return, and included examples (the oranges stuff) for easy understanding in his post. Also, I would like to see your own calculation that you had mentioned to be off from mine.

4. I kinda understood your long paragraph about where the bonus % added. In your assumption, it does not matter if it is BMJ enhancement acting on skill heraldy, or vice versa, as if they will be multiplicative where the sequence does not matters. E.g. 100,000 * 1.2 * 1.57 = 100,000 * 1.57 * 1.2. Diminished return does not exists here since it is stacked multiplicative instead of addition, e.g. 100,000 * (1+0.2+0.57).

The followings are the results from testings from multiple sources, and had been commonly agreed upon. Skill heraldy is an old item, and it had been unchanged since ancient era of beta. It had been proven that the skill damage% is directly added into your current FD%, therefore diminished returned existed based on your current FD%. Skill jades, which are quite a new item, had also been tested. I browsed CDN forum and some DNSEA peeps tried to verify it, and had found that the skill jade enhancement % is added together with FD% and skill heraldy%. However, the base damage% from skill jades are another multipliers.

[BananaCredits]

Heraldy damage% is added into FD% when using the skill, and with current patch where everyone has inflated FD% the gain isnt that much. Even worse, the skill jades enhancement extra% is also added into the mix. Therefore, unless u have like >131% (iirc this is the breakeven point, lazy to recalculate), it is always better go for CD plate for skill jades skills.