Resetting the PvP ranks?

[ZepIic]

No.

Some of us earned our ranks.

Nothing more needs to be said. Only a selfish or jealous fool would think it right to erase 10,000+ 1v1's of hard work from not only me but many of my friends as well.

Nobody cares about the farmers/exploiters. Truly. Nobody really cares. Everybody knows who rightfully earned their position. That's all that matters.

[Soldena]

Rank will never be an indication of skill in this game. People's definition of skill is different and its incredibly hard to measure that depending on person, for it to be a measure of skill then the ranks would have to be personally awarded and that would still be on opinion. If we did it on kill/death ratio classes with higher damage like pyro currently would be the majority of "skilled pvpers". If we did it on number of games then the people who play the most short games would be on top. If we did it on win/loss then people who start fresh accounts who were good on other accounts would be on top instead of players who lost a lot and then got better like myself. Also another point to be made is people judge skill dependent on 1v1 too much, I've seen a whole lot of 1v1ers be absolutely awful at any type of team game because they have no awareness of their team mates, and iv seen team players be absolutely awful at 1v1 because they can't hold long combos because they're used to bursting people. Personally I play 1v1 and 2v2-4v4 and I can say I suck at chill room fighting, there's no walls for me to use and I don't have the patience for someone to run around to get me to waste evades so they can attack me. I'd like to think I'm ok at endless but I wouldn't put it as one of my strong points. Point is, skill is subjective and if we just put it to 1v1 standards then we're missing out on the talent that some players have.

Also I'm just gonna say screw this new forum, I dislike that little message thing that people have under their posts that repeats especially when its super freaking big and takes up like half a page. And who's grand idea was it to make peoples name's "hard as hell to read yellow"?

[ZepIic]

[Amaurus]

No.

Some of us earned our ranks.

Nothing more needs to be said. Only a selfish or jealous fool would think it right to erase 10,000+ 1v1's of hard work from not only me but many of my friends as well.

Nobody cares about the farmers/exploiters. Truly. Nobody really cares. Everybody knows who rightfully earned their position. That's all that matters.

No one is denying that there are plenty of people that worked for their rank.

Even disregarding new players, there are plenty of old players who lost their high ranked characters to the server change. It's an opportunity to allow players to start again and level the playing field. Even if the ranks weren't 'corrupted' in anyway, a reset would still give new players an opportunity they never would have had.

Everybody knows who rightfully earned their position.

I pvp'd a fair bit from 50-70 cap and I can safely say that I have no idea who 'rightfully earned' their rank as opposed to a chill roomer. Such a distinction doesn't exist unless you spend time and effort trying to figure it out.

[gvue]

Reset rank? Ok. Works with me.

[]

Rank will never be an indication of skill in this game. People's definition of skill is different and its incredibly hard to measure that depending on person, for it to be a measure of skill then the ranks would have to be personally awarded and that would still be on opinion. If we did it on kill/death ratio classes with higher damage like pyro currently would be the majority of "skilled pvpers". If we did it on number of games then the people who play the most short games would be on top. If we did it on win/loss then people who start fresh accounts who were good on other accounts would be on top instead of players who lost a lot and then got better like myself. Also another point to be made is people judge skill dependent on 1v1 too much, I've seen a whole lot of 1v1ers be absolutely awful at any type of team game because they have no awareness of their team mates, and iv seen team players be absolutely awful at 1v1 because they can't hold long combos because they're used to bursting people. Personally I play 1v1 and 2v2-4v4 and I can say I suck at chill room fighting, there's no walls for me to use and I don't have the patience for someone to run around to get me to waste evades so they can attack me. I'd like to think I'm ok at endless but I wouldn't put it as one of my strong points. Point is, skill is subjective and if we just put it to 1v1 standards then we're missing out on the talent that some players have.

Also I'm just gonna say screw this new forum, I dislike that little message thing that people have under their posts that repeats especially when its super freaking big and takes up like half a page. And who's grand idea was it to make peoples name's "hard as hell to read yellow"?

Most games are overall performance based when calibrating, it's not one or the other, it's W/L, K/D, hits/combos, amount of time enemy is faceplanted, and more combined. A rank is suppose to be based on skill so yeah.. 1v1 would be best cause that's by far the most difficult in applying proper mechanics. A number based mmr system like ladder that is eq, pretty much like all games competitive system, rewarding points for wins, declines for loss, matched with people equal to your rank. Every other game has done it, the only reason you think it's impossible is cause your use to the shitty system we've had since forever. The only downfall is having to queue and no BL(would could be easily fixed if devs attempted to balance classes with revisions). Endless is far less competitive and much more recreational and they pretty much killed off most of the other Endless PvP modes, even then they could have separate ranks for it, i.e. protect dmg done to caps. Ranks wouldn't have to be personally rewarded at all.

Regardless they're probably not gonna do any of that.

[Rokanji]

Rank will never be an indication of skill in this game. People's definition of skill is different and its incredibly hard to measure that depending on person, for it to be a measure of skill then the ranks would have to be personally awarded and that would still be on opinion. If we did it on kill/death ratio classes with higher damage like pyro currently would be the majority of "skilled pvpers". If we did it on number of games then the people who play the most short games would be on top. If we did it on win/loss then people who start fresh accounts who were good on other accounts would be on top instead of players who lost a lot and then got better like myself. Also another point to be made is people judge skill dependent on 1v1 too much, I've seen a whole lot of 1v1ers be absolutely awful at any type of team game because they have no awareness of their team mates, and iv seen team players be absolutely awful at 1v1 because they can't hold long combos because they're used to bursting people. Personally I play 1v1 and 2v2-4v4 and I can say I suck at chill room fighting, there's no walls for me to use and I don't have the patience for someone to run around to get me to waste evades so they can attack me. I'd like to think I'm ok at endless but I wouldn't put it as one of my strong points. Point is, skill is subjective and if we just put it to 1v1 standards then we're missing out on the talent that some players have.

Also I'm just gonna say screw this new forum, I dislike that little message thing that people have under their posts that repeats especially when its super freaking big and takes up like half a page. And who's grand idea was it to make peoples name's "hard as hell to read yellow"?

Omfg Soldena thank you. I love you so much for this post and might even make it into my signature. I've been trying to stress this point on the old websites forums since 2014, but my words died off because I lost interest in trying to be heard. Once again thank you for having a mind and not conforming to the mindset of pvp forums.

[Tiny]

A reset would essentially be undoing 5(?) years of damage to PVP ranks. It's realistically impossible for a new player to hit the rank of champion at this point in the game's lifespan unless it lasts at the bare minimum of two or even three years. Even then, for you to hit that rank in exactly 1 year, you'd need something like 27,200 Arena XP every single day for one year without missing a single day. On a really, really good day, a player might get somewhere around 20,000 arena XP. Keeping that up for a year is impossible not only due to something called "living", but the activity of other players.

A reset is indeed destructive. Without changes to the nature of how arena XP is calculated at the end of the match, chill rooms would still be a problem. Inevitably, the same problem would arise in the end.

I'd say that the arena's ranking system is not not made with the intention of being a transient skill indicator and the fact that ranks can be earned within custom lobbies where the RM can pick and choose opponents or even make a room dedicated to doing nothing, makes such an expectation absurd. One day after I typed it, I'm not sure that my sentiment was clear in my last pasts first sentence. I just don't think arena rankings are supposed to be what you and the OP want them to be, nor do I think that they should. I really do think people are giving "unranked" pvp more importance than they should due to bad design and a half baked ladder system.

In regards to chill rooms, nobody would care at all about them if they didn't reap the same rewards(but mainly the shiny rank) that what we perceive to be "legitimate" rooms do, trivializing further the already trivial arena ranking system. I think that chill rooms are just a symptom of an underlying problem, not the problem itself. It only appears important to talk about since it's brought to our attention every time we see a high rank with hardly any understanding of their own class.

I mean, I'm sure people have brought up these points in the past but they just never went anywhere because we didn't have a clear line of communication with the devs like we do now. More Importantly, maybe the community is so entrenched in the poor infrastructure that people would rather burn it all to the ground every now and then instead of asking for drastic changes to the foundations of pvp since we've built a community around it for 6 years now. This is why I mentioned the need for a relevant ladder scene. So the up and coming tryhards don't go all noah's ark on the legacies left behind by people too pridefully removed from this game to admit that they did.

To be completely honest, after putting in all that effort with only a clump of yellow pixels next to my name to show for it, the idea of the symbol of my dedication to 1v1ing vanishing in a reset with results that would be reversed in only a short manner of time, would create a sense of loss and resentment that no amount of in-game currency, exclusive costumes or chill roomer tears could ever compensate for

[Reita]

Who gives 40 fucks get CROCKED THEN GET BROCKED simple my nig YOU DIG?

Loooooooooool haha. Who cares about rank. Rank shouldn't even exist. I could go on an egg or rankless character and still win.

[Amaurus]

I'd say that the arena's ranking system is not not made with the intention of being a transient skill indicator and the fact that ranks can be earned within custom lobbies where the RM can pick and choose opponents or even make a room dedicated to doing nothing, makes such an expectation absurd. One day after I typed it, I'm not sure that my sentiment was clear in my last pasts first sentence. I just don't think arena rankings are supposed to be what you and the OP want them to be, nor do I think that they should. I really do think people are giving "unranked" pvp more importance than they should due to bad design and a half baked ladder system.

In regards to chill rooms, nobody would care at all about them if they didn't reap the same rewards(but mainly the shiny rank) that what we perceive to be "legitimate" rooms do, trivializing further the already trivial arena ranking system. I think that chill rooms are just a symptom of an underlying problem, not the problem itself. It only appears important to talk about since it's brought to our attention every time we see a high rank with hardly any understanding of their own class.

I mean, I'm sure people have brought up these points in the past but they just never went anywhere because we didn't have a clear line of communication with the devs like we do now. More Importantly, maybe the community is so entrenched in the poor infrastructure that people would rather burn it all to the ground every now and then instead of asking for drastic changes to the foundations of pvp since we've built a community around it for 6 years now. This is why I mentioned the need for a relevant ladder scene. So the up and coming tryhards don't go all noah's ark on the legacies left behind by people too pridefully removed from this game to admit that they did.

You're right in saying that just smashing the reset button as though it was an AFK chill roomer is a terrible idea. As unlikely as it is, blank name's suggestion of separate ranks is probably a fantastic alternative. Having seperate ranking systems for each of the gamemodes opens up the opportunity for specialization.

There could be separate ranking systems for: 1v1, 2v2, 4v4, and All Endless under 1 system. I'm going to say right now, I am not a 1v1'er, so forgive me if my assertions are faulty. Since 1v1 is likely the most abusable of the ranking systems (since you only need 1 partner), having a group of people actually moderate it and watch for people attempting to boost would be the most ideal. 1v1 could use the ladder system we have right now, but just equalized (I have not laddered since 60 cap, I don't know if ladder is still 99% BS).

One issue I can think of is immediate differentiation. A player who exclusively 1v1s and has their rank from this would never want to be put in the same barrel as someone who exclusively spams endless protect. Perhaps different icons could be made for each gamemode with the current icons being used for either 1v1s or endless. Having 'Best in Class' icons would be a great touch as well with the standard champion crown instead being the person's class icon but gold. That would likely be distributed by second specialization.

I do not know if these hypothetical ranking systems should be ranked by arena XP or not. 1v1 would likely benefit from some sort of MMR system but other gamemodes, such as Endless, wouldn't mean much different from what they are now if they were to keep the arena XP rankings.

To be completely honest, after putting in all that effort with only a clump of yellow pixels next to my name to show for it, the idea of the symbol of my dedication to 1v1ing vanishing in a reset with results that would be reversed in only a short manner of time, would create a sense of loss and resentment that no amount of in-game currency, exclusive costumes or chill roomer tears could ever compensate for

I don't really have much to say in regards to this. I know what it's like to lose a blue ranked character since mine got nuked during the transfer, but a gold rank is something completely out of my league, especially if it's achieved only through 1v1s. I'd hope they would implement some system better than what we have now.

[Soldena]

Most games are overall performance based when calibrating, it's not one or the other, it's W/L, K/D, hits/combos, amount of time enemy is faceplanted, and more combined. A rank is suppose to be based on skill so yeah.. 1v1 would be best cause that's by far the most difficult in applying proper mechanics. A number based mmr system like ladder that is eq, pretty much like all games competitive system, rewarding points for wins, declines for loss, matched with people equal to your rank. Every other game has done it, the only reason you think it's impossible is cause your use to the shitty system we've had since forever. The only downfall is having to queue and no BL(would could be easily fixed if devs attempted to balance classes with revisions). Endless is far less competitive and much more recreational and they pretty much killed off most of the other Endless PvP modes, even then they could have separate ranks for it, i.e. protect dmg done to caps. Ranks wouldn't have to be personally rewarded at all.

Regardless they're probably not gonna do any of that.

The problem I see with any type of win/loss based skill ranking would be the fact that we can kick people from games or leave games early with no penalty, if I so pleased I could make a new account and have a 100% win rate on it because I could leave every game I'm going to lose or kick anyone I think that will beat me. Only way around this would be ladder where you obtain points for winning and lose some for leaving or losing. Problem with that is how imbalanced the classes are, I mean when ladder was relevant wasn't it only one class at the very top? And since its a win that actually means something people will result to the cheapest stuff to win. I mean could you imagine fighting tryhard kitey snipers all day in a ladder type setting thats equalized and you can't just choose to not fight them like our normal 1v1 rooms allow? It would be awful and no one but the op classes and the masochistic would play the mode. There are brilliant pvpers that I've seen over the years that don't win much or players that skill wise they're some of the best in the game and a lot of them are completely unrecognized.

[]

The problem I see with any type of win/loss based skill ranking would be the fact that we can kick people from games or leave games early with no penalty, if I so pleased I could make a new account and have a 100% win rate on it because I could leave every game I'm going to lose or kick anyone I think that will beat me. Only way around this would be ladder where you obtain points for winning and lose some for leaving or losing. Problem with that is how imbalanced the classes are, I mean when ladder was relevant wasn't it only one class at the very top? And since its a win that actually means something people will result to the cheapest stuff to win. I mean could you imagine fighting tryhard kitey snipers all day in a ladder type setting thats equalized and you can't just choose to not fight them like our normal 1v1 rooms allow? It would be awful and no one but the op classes and the masochistic would play the mode. There are brilliant pvpers that I've seen over the years that don't win much or players that skill wise they're some of the best in the game and a lot of them are completely unrecognized.

Then add a penalty to it? As I said, same system as all games. Also a mm queue, so it wouldn't be rooms you make yourself. Blind match making with someone similar rank to you in a queue like ladder.

And yeah I addressed the imbalance part already >The only downfall is having to queue and no BL(would could be easily fixed if devs attempted to balance classes with revisions).

All games are inbalanced by the way, which is why some heroes come into meta and some fall out. These can last for months, it's the same with DN if we get updates in time, they all rise and fall at one point. People kite and stuff but that's how DN is, you adjust and learn how to play against it, counter it like once again, all games. Skill isn't only mechanics, it's positioning, adapting, timing and understanding your opponent. I understand where you're coming from but pretty much all games face this issue. No game has perfect balance.

[Soldena]

Omfg Soldena thank you. I love you so much for this post and might even make it into my signature. I've been trying to stress this point on the old websites forums since 2014, but my words died off because I lost interest in trying to be heard. Once again thank you for having a mind and not conforming to the mindset of pvp forums.

I'm glad I could help, personally I'd like to see an underrated players list compiled every once in a while. I think I'm gonna make a thread for it and see how it goes just an ongoing thing for people to shout out other's efforts in the game and hopefully spread some positive growth among-st this revamped community.

Also thank you Zeplic for helping with my eye bleeding problem with the goddang color choices.

[ZepIic]

#teamAkrimy

[SaitoHikari]

Does nobody know any freaking history? Why do people keep bringing this crap up?

SEA did exactly this THREE YEARS AGO. What happened? ALL THE TOP RANKS GOT TAKEN OVER BY FREAKING CHILL ROOMERS AND RANK FARMERS. A rank reset didn't freaking do ANYTHING -but- punish legitimate players.

As it is, it's a freaking miracle that there are actually some pure 1v1ers occupying higher ranks. Not like they actually take it seriously.

[ZepIic]

I really want to put something cute and clever here to backup your statement but im coming up blank.

But it's the thought that counts. Right?

[Rinkie]

Nobody cares about the farmers/exploiters in the ranks.. "Rank Means Nothing"
No rank reset would happen tho since we kept our ranks post transfer.

[Echelos]

Didn't KDN recently get an update where the Ladder ranking system was given its own separate ranks and titles and the capability to display your Ladder rank icon instead of your general pvp rank?