General Discussion/Q&A Thread for Academics

[Pyroquasar]

Hello guys! I'm a new player here. I have a GM and I want to ask questions regarding its skills.

1. Is the Mechanic Ice Pump an iframe? I have a few instances where the boss attacks me while casting it and did not receive any damage.
2. Currently my rotation is Summon all Eng towers>MM>Reload>CST>MM>Mecha duck>Chem Grenade>Mecha Bomb>Gravity Grenade>BMB EXi>MM CST>MM Ice Pump>BMB>Mecha Cannon>Mecha Bomb then repeat. Any suggestion for a better rotation? My tower set up is 3 GGT and a CST. I also cast reload when it is on red, to use demolition.
3. Why is the cast time of tower recall sucks T.T, I always receive a lot of damage before being able to move.
4. Is the boost on SS and GM coming in the next patch? I'm excited on making an SS.

Anyway, I would like to thank Xenocho for his GM build. It's great!

[Xenocho]

1. as far as I know, it is not an I-frame from my observations in tests (I-frame have a white glow) but since you mentioned it, I will take a look again.

2. I think the rotation is fine but let me make a few comments. If starting from zero, it looks like you will only have two ducks on field for mecha bomb and mecha cannon. I do not recommend it for cannon use due to long cd. Also after cannon, only up to 3 ducks are re summoned; for mecha bomb to deal efficient damage, it should be 4 ducks on field.

I will not recommend you to use reload in your rotation as such due to the skill not contributing significantly to the output. However, casting reload to allow demolition to be used can be considered, provided the dps window is there.

I also usually pair bmb exi and ex together to prevent use of gravity grenade while bmb exi is not ready yet. If this is not an issue, I think it's ok.

[Xenocho]

3. I was quite upset when nothing was done to tower recall in the recent boost. However they boosted the aspd bonus under mm; hopefully with the aspd food, this becomes bearable. It's not only taking damage but also having the skill completely cancelled if cast at the wrong time.

4. The boost should come in 2 patches, with bleed assassin (kdn nov 2017). Our Next patch is the kdn sept.

I wanted to believe GM is strong after that boost but the numbers are not good enough. It's a boost that makes her better but still not on par with other dps. I have second thoughts whether she can outdo an adept with similar gears. On the other hand, SS is pretty good after that. I too am interested in the SS.

[Xenocho]

Anyway I'm glad the build helped. I actually enjoy playing GM but she is incapable of carrying properly and is a more for fun char for the time being. Feel free to ask anymore questions or share experiences. I'll do my best to help

I broke my reply into many comments due to replying on phone, which makes it difficult to go through the wall of text in the comment text box.

[Wiiwoo]

what patch in kr does the fix on adept's flair included? or is it fixed aldy? or ED dont want to fix it on SEA *rip*

[Wiiwoo]

ugh. not yet fixed @.@

[Xenocho]

Yeah. I suppose they might just want to "fix" it with the change in cast time in the more recent KDN patches....

[Meraxes2]

the revamped will probably end the issue of the missing iframe, the only iframe from this patch is the rolling animation after casting flair.

[Meraxes2]

Skill changes for Physician from the recent January 2018 kdn patch. Refer to http://blog.divinitor.com/blog/2018/...r-translation/

Anyone from kdn, pls share screenshots or videos. I wanna see awakened love virus and revamped poison strike.

[ViolaLion]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0XpsAsrnwY&t=0s

[WayneTan]

Will SS outperform RM on the next patch with Engineer buff.

[Xenocho]

I think they are almost equal, but CDN has seen better output from an RM versus SS. It may be that the best geared RM are better geared than the SS.

Apart from that, the nest/raid being compared also affects. For Rune Dragon Nest, SS has an issue with boss hitbox and positioning, which is more difficult to handle versus the RM's arsenal. Whereas for large monsters like Dragon, the RM's skill can deal a lot more damage than usual too.

[WayneTan]

I see, I am half geared which using RUDN L on loli, I heard that is going to remove the converter on the patch, is that real?

[Xenocho]

According to patch notes, they mentioned "next" patch. It should not be removed immediately, especially since other servers also got this "announcement" that they are removing it soon.

[Wiiwoo]

Xenocho, can post here your insights about the new SS and GM if you're done testing it on actual raid? Like the rumors that SS > RM and such. Tenkyu

[Xenocho]

I was commenting but started to write an essay for SS part -.- I will write a new post on it.

[Xenocho]

Shooting Star
TL;DR
Pros: One of the strongest burst class atm, rivalled possibly by Spinning Skewer spamming Flurry or RM bursts under perfect condition (sorry, dunno other class burst power)
Cons: Lack filler, so after burst, you will do crap dmg. Dangerous during mechs which require DPS.

General info:
I've not tested SS in Rune HC, but I've done a lot of nests with it so I hope this short description is ok:
- SS now is really quite a burst class now with slight setup with positioning. This has pros and cons.
- In general, will not use Demolition at all now. Bullets are better spent for Splash only. Alfredo skills are also decent but they really are just filler or initial setups.
- Hence the skill build, which I will point out throughout my discussions on setups:
.
- Standard setup:
Pros:
--The basic setup for the burst of SS, which takes around 8 seconds and involves casting Chemical Grenade, BCM, MT EXi, MT EX, Quick Shot and spam Splash in that order.
--This results in around 125,000% damage with somewhat equal damage between the skills in terms of dmg/cast time (15,625% DMG/Cast with Willpower Fragment only)
-- The reason why it is cast this way is to cancel BCM's cast delay with MT EXi and also to ensure that MT EXi's yellow icon goes away just in time to use MT EX.
Cons:
-- A key disadvantage is if the boss is very mobile, and you might waste the opportunity to setup properly, or even cast MT EXi (which now has 2 CD limitations). If the positioning is unsuitable, you will lose out on a lot of damage so either wait for a nice window, or just throw BCM first and wait for the opportunity to cast Chem Grenade, followed by double MT. This also results in more waiting time for the MT EXi yellow icon to go away. Avoid casting MT EX before Chem Grenade if no ele-debuffer is present.
-- Damage also is lesser if the mob does not get hit much by Mine Thrower in the first place
-- Follow up from the above setup becomes slightly awkward. You really do not have much damaging skills apart from Splash, which made me decide to learn Air Shot Awakening. Going between this and Cannon Blaster Awakening, I went for this. Both skills are terrible, but one skill has higher damage hence the choice. Skill priority should be Reload > debuffs > MT EX > Splash > all others.
.
- Alfredo setup:
Pros:
-- Adds a decent chunk of damage, especially that Alfredo gets to be boosted by Alfredo Berserker
-- Can be prepared before boss spawns, since Alfredo Berserker can be triggered by casting Transitional Damage
-- Damage dealt: 25,200% from Alfredo artillery, 22,900% from Satellite, and 32,670 from Alfredo drill at the end, for a total of 80,770%. Damage shown includes Alfredo Berserker but not MM ATK power buff
-- Casting of these skills pair with the Standard Setup. Casting Summon Buster before Chem Grenade allows SS to cast Alfredo Drill after casting Reload after the Splash spam
Cons:
-- Takes awhile to set up: 2.2s to turn on MM (1s) and summon Alfredo (1.2s), and cast Alfredo Berserker (4s if allowed to detect boss to trigger self cast, 2s if triggered via TD). Not always will the SS have time to precast all these.
-- Boss usually does not stay in the same spot to get hit by the Summon Buster Satellite. In addition, the boss usually cast skills which can break Alfredo's SA and hence cancelling the artillery. This can be alleviated by recalling Alfredo (does not disrupt skill).
-- Rushing to cast the skill before Alfredo acquired the target will result in the artillery firing and the drill targeting a random location, resulting in high damage loss.
.
.
Take away points on SS gameplay
1. Strongly recommend the use of Splash via CM III, as it reduces the cone area and this ensures complete hits most of the time. Although the cast time of Quick Shot is slightly slow, it improves the damage especially for smaller targets. Usually you should stand a few steps away from the boss to prevent hitbox error, which you will see no dmg dealt sometimes. However, you can skip this if the target is large enough and you can just Splash away.

2. The CD mismatch between Chem Grenade and Mine Thrower EXi is troublesome and actions differ depending on the lineups. If there is an alternative ele-debuffer, it is ok to skip Chem Grenade until MT EXi CD is ready (usually when MT EX has 1s or so remaining). In a lineup where the SS is the only ele debuffer, it is better to cast Chem Grenade off CD as the 5s delay in MT EXi results in less damage loss versus casting many other skills without the ele debuff.

3. Do not reload off CD when your bullet count is high. This is to ensure that you can Reload > Quick Shot > Splash immediately after finishing a Splash spam. For this reason, it may be useful to use CD plate for Quick Shot.

Skill plates:
- Splash DMG
- Mine Thrower DMG
- Biochemical Missile DMG
- (Last one can be anything, recommendations are Quick Shot CD, Air Shot CD, Dodge CD, Wax CD)

On whether SS is above RM, I think it's not conclusive. I am dealing better damage on SS than I was on RM but I'm not as good on RM than I am on SS, so it might be a piloting problem.

[ShadouDaisuke]

Hi, xeno. Sorry for disturb. Can i ask what kind of build is that? Pure PVE or have half PVP?

2nd question, can i ask about skill rotation of SS? Ty in advance

[Xenocho]

This is a full PVE build. Sorry I am unable to provide information for PVP builds.

For rotations,
With willpower fragment or harmonize party buff: Summon Buster (X) > Chemical Grenade > Biochemical Missile > Mine Thrower EXi > Mine Thrower EX > Quick Shot > Splash > Alfredo Drill (X) > Reload > Quick Shot > Splash.

Without willpower, you can cast BCM before Chemical Grenade.

Also if rushing to burst, you can ignore the X skills, which are Alfredo skills. They are strong but takes some setup. Ultimately because not always the setup works, they contribute a small portion to SS dps versus other skills.

[ShadouDaisuke]

its ok, actually im looking for pure PVE build im not interest in any PVP thing. Bcoz some of my friend use PVPxPVE build. Ok ill try that rotation. Thank you for your answer anyway. Hope that info willb be useful for another newcomer SS player too

[Xenocho]

Gear Master
I've not test GM much for now so not much elaboration on that.
- The main point of the GM now is that you should focus more on casting skills via the GM, with more emphasis on duck skills and MM CS than the other MM variants.
- For now, you should focus mainly on getting your CST near the boss. This is because the other towers are not as good as CST due to the boost, and focusing on throwing other towers might slow the GM more. This is not preferred, since many of the GM skills got boosted, and you will want to use BMBs and MM CS off CD always. This playstyle also allows you to reduce usage of Tower Recall, which is terribly slow. Recasting the CST is better, unless you had very good food buffs.
- I will add on more details when I have more experience, probably by tomorrow evening.

[atom100]

at least plant CST in the summoned wipe environment. the damage per hit is about 9 to 10x of cannon tower. BMB is awesome , at least 2x the damage of previous one.

[Xenocho]

Apparently BMB has this special hit which applies the debuff before the damage. So far I've not been able to throw a BMB in BTG without having applied DMG debuff even before the first hit. Of course, throwing at floor beside the Golem doesn't work.

[donmix@gmail.com]

Tips, trick, rotation, skill build, and skill plates. Basically a TL;DR for Adept. Thanks. And sorry for the bother.

[Xenocho]

The way you ask, I don't know how to differentiate tips and tricks.

Skill plate: Magma Punch CD, Magma Wave CD, Ice Beam CD, Icicle Expression DMG
Skill build: https://dnskillsim.herokuapp.com/sea...-0-00-----0--0

- Cast skills off CD, especially Magma Punch and Ice Punch (don't do 2nd hit).
- Always cast Napalm Grenade before casting Magma Wave
- Skill Priority = Magma Wall > Elemental Flair > Icicle Expression > Magma Wave
- Start of window = Magma Punch, Ice Punch, Magma Wall, Ice Beam EXi, Elemental Flair, Icicle Expression, Napalm Grenade, Magma Wave, then cast off CD. Others are filler.
- During free time, use Phy-tree skills to get bubbles. Try to have 20 bubbles whenever you get into a fight

Ask more specific questions once you tried the class. Have fun

[Xenocho]

I still hate the fact that the comments with links are hidden and moderated. I don't know if I actually posted or not....

Anyway;

The way you ask, I don't know how to differentiate tips and tricks.

Skill plate: Magma Punch CD, Magma Wave CD, Ice Beam CD, Icicle Expression DMG
Skill build: https://dnskillsim.herokuapp.com/sea...-0-00-----0--0

- Cast skills off CD, especially Magma Punch and Ice Punch (don't do 2nd hit).
- Always cast Napalm Grenade before casting Magma Wave
- Skill Priority = Magma Wall > Elemental Flair > Icicle Expression > Magma Wave
- Start of window = Magma Punch, Ice Punch, Magma Wall, Ice Beam EXi, Elemental Flair, Icicle Expression, Napalm Grenade, Magma Wave, then cast off CD. Others are filler.
- During free time, use Phy-tree skills to get bubbles. Try to have 20 bubbles whenever you get into a fight

Stack 1 ele is enough due to awakened passive. Fire/Ice, whichever is fine, it is the same.

Ask more specific questions once you tried the class. Have fun

[Nimmienaticz]

I came here just to ask some questions,

Why I shouldn't do " ice punch 2nd hit "?
Isn't it used for another alchemy bubble?
Or the 2nd punch dmg isn't good and puts you to bad positioning (since it moves forward a bit)?


Should I use W or S (movement key) in casting Magma Wall?
Just wondering that the walls position on "w" was on far in circle alignment
and "s" are making a reversed "v" alignment of walls.
How do you use those movement key when casting Magma Wall?


Should I use Standard Ice Beam usage or I should spam EXi more often?
How about in raid and in party? Which should I use? Standard or EXi?
If Standard Ice Beam do better in raid, how long does it gives ice stack/debuff?
Is it still 3 seconds before ice stack/debuff wears off?


Thanks!
/occasional adept-user here/ *u*

[Xenocho]

Hi Nimmie. I'll provide answers for your questions in separate paragraphs.

Bubble gain is on the skill use, not via extra hit, so the extra hit is meant for extra damage, which is actually terrible versus other skills. You should be casting other high dmg skills instead

The S positioning of Magma Wall is one of the worst. Very unlikely you will manage to deal full 8 hits with that. Usually its between W and non-directional ones. The former is usually used for like large bosses such as 1st boss in Ice Dragon Nest, while the non-directional one is more often used for small bosses which can fit inside, such as 2nd and 3rd boss in Rune Dragon Nest. Both require a bit of practice to get the right positioning to ensure full hits.

Only use Ice Beam EXi. The chance is relatively high, so the freeze is almost sure to hit. Ice Beam's freeze should last 5 secs not including ice-resist, which reduces by percentage (20% reduces by 1s). Ice Beam EX is not recommended because the repeated application of ice causes frame lag, which usually disrupts skill rotation of players especially when their PC is laggy. I would only cast Ice Beam EX if that's what people want, but usually people rather not have freeze if it comes with that lag.

Feel free to ask ahead if you have questions Have a good day.

[Nimmienaticz]

Thanks Remmie!

[Wiiwoo]

Also just wanna add:

"Why I shouldn't do " ice punch 2nd hit "?
Isn't it used for another alchemy bubble?
Or the 2nd punch dmg isn't good and puts you to bad positioning (since it moves forward a bit)?"

-just 1 ice punch so you can cast magma wall between ice punch and ice beam exi. This is to cancel few seconds of animation from casting magma wall.

[Wiiwoo]

Hi Xeno,

do you think, this boost from kr will make adept on t2 or even near t1 dps?

http:
//patchnote.
dragonnest.
com/category
?patchnoteno=18

[Wiiwoo]

hmmm i think it will take some time for my question to be posted as it has url.

Hi Xeno,

have you seen the kr boost for adept? do you think that boost will pin adept to t2 dps or even t1 dps? Thnx in advance.

http://patchnote.dragonnest.com/category?patchnoteno=18

[Xenocho]

I don't think so. The boost is good, but not the OP lvls of Flurry and SS. It does help them out a lot, but their main increase is their constant DPS, not so much the burst. The Ice Beam DMG up is really nice tho as burst.

Dual Elemental Flare does make up a good burst but it requires 6s or so, and dual casting would need maybe 8s and a lot of luck.

Overall, Adept is viable again.

[Wiiwoo]

Thanks Xeno.

[WayneTan]

RIP SS RM get nerf badly.. dahuk..

[Xenocho]

Somehow CC forum does not seem accessible anymore - as a result, my previous engineer guide is no longer accessible. As I have saved an archived version of it, I will be saving it on google docs. The shareable link is this (click) and I will be including it in my signature as well.

Most of the info is relevant until the SS boost which pushed SS to the top of the DPS. With the pending SS nerf coming, I am simply preparing to analyse the skills again and thought this may be a good reference for some who wish for additional info too.

Cheers.

[Kobebeng]

Hello there! Fellow SS here. I'm crit capped already and I just want to know if I should still stack on AGI or should I go for STR now? BTW I'm still looking for an updated skill build for SS. Thanks in advance.

[Xenocho]

The talisman used makes a small difference. At the 200% slot, it should be ultimate and wind; 175% destruction and limitation; other than that all difference. What's useful instead is to prioritize talisman with 2nd stat agi/attack/crit dmg.

I think keeping bear plate is okay but you could prioritize def mdef hp and vit, which all do not contribute to your dps output

[Kobebeng]

Really appreciate everything Remmy!!! Thank you very much for the Help! I'm just really loving SS but then sad news for the coming big nerf.

[Xenocho]

The nerf hurts but SS is still viable. Definitely weaker than before but it is comparable to Adept to be among the top for Academics (not including RM, not too sure about that one)

[Vlitzkrieg]

Hey, was thinking of rolling a gm but heard they're getting hit with some heavy nerfs. Are they going to be worth playing even after said nerfs?

[Xenocho]

I would say it still is fun to play, but the output is reduced a lot. It will probably be the weakest academic class among the 4.

[Vlitzkrieg]

Yikes, thanks man.